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The Importance of Grit in Advancing Your Career

Episode overview

Are you fearful when it comes to taking on work challenges or pursuing a new career? Do you have a hard time trying to face it? 

Pete is joined by a long-time friend, Glen McCall, in this episode of the finding career zen podcast.  Motivation comes in different ways and from a variety of experiences. From facing challenging times as a college student, to starting over in his career, to ultimately becoming First United Bank’s President in Oklahoma City & Edmond, Glen shares the traits and beliefs that have allowed him to succeed personally and professionally. 

How exactly did he do it? Could it have been his faith, analytical skills, lessons learned along the way, or something altogether different?  Tune in to discover how Glen learned to slay his dragons, and become a leader who shows others how to slay theirs.

Advice for self-growth, personally and professionally

Ask questions

We are social creatures, everyone likes to be acknowledged and showing interest is guaranteed to leave an impression.

Be helpful

In sales, you should operate with the mindset that people are going to do what they believe is best for them. It’s never about what you want, it’s about what they want. Instead of internalizing an individual’s reaction, make strides to understand it. 

You have plenty of time, make sure to enjoy it

Cherish each moment instead of looking for things to worry about.

Every path is unique

Your career path may not be a straight line, and that’s okay! It may take a lot of extra work, but it’s never too late to follow your passions and create your own route.

Rewards rarely exist without a challenge

Your journey is heroic and adversity is inevitable. Optimism and willingness to overcome difficulties will lead you towards success.

Envision what you want to do

Have an appreciation for the people who do it and what you need from them, and don’t be afraid for your ego to take a backseat when pursuing your career goals.

Additional resources

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome headshot

Pete Newsome is the President and founder of zengig, which he created after spending two decades in staffing and recruiting. He’s also the founder of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed and award-winning staffing and recruiting firm he started out of a home office in 2005. Pete’s primary mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way; with a commitment to zengig becoming the most comprehensive source of expert advice, tools, and resources for career growth and happiness. When he’s not in the office or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his career knowledge and expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Finding Career Zen & Hire Calling podcasts.

Transcript

Pete Newsome  00:15
You’re listening to the finding career zen Podcast. I’m your host Pete Newsome, and I’m joined today by Glen McCall. 

Pete Newsome  00:21
Glen is market president of First United Bank in Oklahoma City in Edmond and someone that I’ve known for almost 30 years, more than 30 years now. So this is a real pleasure to have you on today, Glen, how are you my friend?

Glen McCall  00:34
I’m doing great, my friend. I was thinking about this as we were talking about doing this and talking about career pathing and all the things that go along with that. 

Glen McCall  00:45
Yeah, it’s been a long time. So I graduated in ’88, and you graduated in ’89. So it was one year difference, but I don’t think we were like the best buds. 

Pete Newsome  00:56
We weren’t, we had a mutual friend. It was a close friend of each of ours and he brought us together. I remember, we spent, for me, it was a very memorable weekend, you may not even remember at Eckerd College when you were a freshman there. 

Pete Newsome  01:11
I’m sure when I was a senior in high school, we went out and you were gracious to let me join in and I just remember playing beach volleyball on the water. I mean, what a great place to go to school.

Glen McCall  01:23
It was not bad. You know, as I went to high school with you and Largo, out all my buddies, including our mutual friend that went off to big schools and Florida State, of course, being that school, and for me, I needed something different. 

Glen McCall  01:40
And I did pretty well academically in high school, and was fortunate enough to really get a good scholarship there at that campus and, it was a school at that time of 1,300 students. 

Pete Newsome  01:54
Wow.

Glen McCall  01:55
Smaller than our high school. But yeah, that was a fun weekend. 

Pete Newsome  02:00
I imagine that it was fun, very different than FSU where I went, which you know, you never get to know most people, let alone all of them. 

Pete Newsome  02:08
But when I was out there, the one memory I had was that it felt like a community. It felt like you guys were all buddies and I really liked it. 

Pete Newsome  02:16
And I’ve encouraged my kids, my older two did not go to a small school, even though I encouraged them to because I’ve always remembered that weekend, which is kind of an interesting thing, it stood out and I thought well, it’d be a really neat experience a very different one.

Glen McCall  02:31
It was neat. 

Glen McCall  02:32
And, you know, I was thinking about this. I mean, you get in the school, where I went to it was 20 students, I think it might have been 18 per professor. So, you know, imagine, and I think the average professor was a PhD. You know, 75 or 80% of them were PhDs. 

Glen McCall  02:50
So there weren’t places to hide, I would say in that environment. It was if you came to class, and you weren’t prepared, it was an uncomfortable situation, you couldn’t hide in the masses. So I would say that there was that conversational element to my education which was pretty cool. Without a doubt, well, so it was a great experience. 

Pete Newsome  03:12
Yeah. So you went to college and learned, which is very different than my experience.

Glen McCall  03:18
So, you know, one of the things, it was a liberal arts college and Eckerd College was and you know, but I took a class on German art philosophy. Now, I don’t know how often I’m using German art and philosophy. But there was a lesson I will never forget from so you talked about learning. 

Glen McCall  03:39
It was on Kierkegaard or something, right? Like it was like 23 pages I had to read and this particular class literally was held in an office and it had seven students. 

Pete Newsome  03:53
Wow.

Glen McCall  03:56
And he’s like, you go around the room and they say, well, “Glen what do you think of the passage”? And you know, I hadn’t read the passage that was probably the weekend you came down. So I didn’t read the passage, and the professor said, “Oh, well, okay, why don’t we take a minute here, I need to talk to the rest of the class.” 

Glen McCall  04:19
So I had to get up out of his office and he asked the rest of the class, “Is it okay, if Glen stays here?” And it was like, and I came back in and they said, you know, we all voted to allow you to stay for this class. 

Pete Newsome  04:31
They didn’t vote you off the island.

Glen McCall  04:32
They didn’t vote me off.

Glen McCall  04:33
But they probably tell you, it was like, it taught me a lot about being prepared for meetings or interactions, like from that moment forward.

Glen McCall  04:43
They said, “Hey, if it happens again, you’re not going to be able to stay because the totality of this experience is based on your contribution, whether it’s erroneous or all over the place. We need to hear different worldviews. So on and so forth, and you bringing nothing to the table it is not good.” 

Glen McCall  05:04
So I took that to heart, that was something I really learned in that experiment. 

Pete Newsome  05:09
So wow, yeah, there’s so much we could talk probably for an hour straight about that lesson alone and how that compares to lessons that kids of similar ages are learning right now in the world or not learning, I think that is a more appropriate way to phrase it. 

Pete Newsome  05:27
But what I find interesting is that it just resonates with me as a parent, as someone you know, like you, we have kids in school right now. So how do you impart those kinds of ideals to your kids? I mean, how important is teaching those lessons? 

Pete Newsome  05:48
Because, you know, just a quick to back up a minute with our history, so everyone knows we didn’t talk or interact in any way for 25 plus years. I guess Facebook probably is how we reconnected like so many people our age, right? 

Pete Newsome  06:05
Yes, not how it was intended. 

Glen McCall  06:07
It’s quite a hit by it turns out.

Pete Newsome  06:08
We discovered it and then we started talking when I saw what you did, when COVID hit and it was impacting so many businesses, mine included and knowing you were in banking, I think I reached out to you for advice on your PPP loan, we won’t go down that road right now. 

Pete Newsome  06:25
That’s in the rearview mirror for all of us, thank goodness. And it was like we had been in touch all along, It was really a neat thing to do. And you were gracious to stop, you’re very, very busy, hectic time to help me out, which I very much appreciate. 

Pete Newsome  06:41
So thank you for that, but, you know, there’s a lot of bad about social media, but there’s certainly a lot of good in terms of bringing people together who would otherwise probably never would have talked again.

Glen McCall  06:55
I mean, I think that’s absolutely true. And I mean, I look around at the tools, and that’s a tool, right, just like anything else. And it can be used for good and it can be used for bad and you know, so forth. But you asked about kids and like I tell my kids all the time, like you’re at the apex of human civilization, right? 

Glen McCall  07:15
Like your every whim, you know, these things and the level of entertainment provided on this and so forth. But you know, I try to tell them all the time that you’re going to be dealing with groups of people for the rest of your life, right. And generally speaking, it’s going to be a small group, it won’t be a big group, even if you go to a huge university. 

Glen McCall  07:39
And you are in a big course, normally, they’ll have a study group, right? You’ll have six to ten people. And honestly, my entire life is dictated by groups of six to ten. I mean, that’s six to ten people reporting to me, my boss has six to ten people reporting to them, like, this is how we organize and I don’t know why that is, you know, maybe it’s the rule of golden proportion. 

Glen McCall  08:03
I don’t really know how this whole thing works. But that is how we interact. And so I’m constantly talking to my kids, like, how do you do that? Right? How do you form relationships with people that you don’t necessarily get along with? 

Glen McCall  08:17
Don’t see eye to eye with and communication is a huge part of that and empathy as well. And inquiry, right? So the thing that I will say when I’m, you know, talking or interviewing people and so forth is like, if you’re not a naturally inquisitive person, it’s really difficult to be around.

Pete Newsome  08:40
Sure, yeah. 

Glen McCall  08:42
For anyone, right? So I always tell my kids when they’re talking about well I don’t know what to say, you don’t have to say you have to ask questions.

Pete Newsome  08:49
Exactly, and isn’t that such a simple thing for us to comprehend? But at that age, okay, your oldest is what 20? 

Glen McCall  08:58
Almost 21.

Pete Newsome  08:59
Almost 21, so he’s the same age as mine, number two, and then your youngest is how old? 

Glen McCall  09:06
14.

Pete Newsome  09:06
Okay, so my youngest is 14. So we’re in the same range. It seems so simple and I told my boys last night I was picking up one of my kids from a football camp two nights ago and a boy who I knew is on the same grade as one of mine, but we knew each other in middle school. 

Pete Newsome  09:26
I know his parents. He walked by me he could have easily walked by and avoided eye contact and I wouldn’t have thought anything of it. Yeah, we can all picture the situation, but he didn’t. 

Pete Newsome  09:38
He made a point of saying “Hi, Mr. Newsome.” It just stood out, It was such an easy thing. And the kid was automatically elevated in my eyes. So much so that I texted his mom the next morning, who I’ve been friends with for a number of years. 

Pete Newsome  09:53
I said, “I know you already know how polite your son is, but I just had to tell you, it just stood out and I hope my mine would do that”, I’m not sure they always would. 

Pete Newsome  10:02
They claim that they do but I’m not around, right? But what a simple thing to acknowledge other people. And to your point, just ask about them. Everyone likes for someone to be interested and everyone likes to be acknowledged. I mean, that is universal, isn’t it?

Glen McCall  10:20
It is and, you know, these are things that, again, as equally, these tools are great. They’re removing, that ability. And so, you know, we’ll get back to my career in a bit. But you know, several years ago, I began to look, you and I connected, it began with COVID. 

Glen McCall  10:41
My biggest concern throughout that was the development of our young people. And so I feel like yourself, myself, people ran around the block a little bit, you know, if we could isolate it for a little bit, it might actually be a nice welcome. 

Glen McCall  10:47
You know, to kind of tone things down, our kids are not equipped for that. So we are social creatures and that was my biggest concern with the schools shut down, a lot of these various things that you and I talked about is that, you know, there’s no free lunch. 

Glen McCall  11:02
And there was certainly a cost to COVID and real lives and so forth. But I got into, you know, and we’ve talked about this before, I’m a Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout troop. And, and we actually do a whole class on teaching how to shake hands and look someone in the eye. 

Glen McCall  11:26
Like we’ll spend an entire week, once a year, we have these new kids come in, and we set up seven or eight or ten adults, and I’m blessed to have like a doctor and an engineer and all these humans and we just have them come and look straight in the eye and shake their hands. 

Glen McCall  11:42
“Hello, nice to meet you. How are you?” You know, basic reading stuff because you’re right, the bar, sad as it is the bar on that particular thing is pretty low. And we have to train on that. So I’m proud of that kid, tell his mom, good job.

Pete Newsome  12:03
Well, maybe she’ll listen, I’ll ask her to! We will talk about your career. 

Pete Newsome  12:09
But I think these things are very tied together as I have shared with you. When I invited you to come on on the podcast, we just launched this website, which I’ve been planning for about nine months now. It is to give career advice and guidance. 

Pete Newsome  12:23
And so one of the challenges that I’m trying to accomplish with all of this is to tell young people what they need to hear, which isn’t necessarily what they want to hear. And that’s a dangerous thing in a world where differing opinions aren’t popular. And so I’m telling you, this is someone who, when we’ve caught up over the last couple of years and talked we do so very openly. 

Pete Newsome  12:23
And the point of the podcast is really to speak with people about their career journey, and how it’s led to where they are today. Rarely have these journeys have been something you could script. There’s almost always adversity and challenges. Life’s not easy, we know that. But I don’t know that young people know that. 

Pete Newsome  13:19
And I’ve talked about the challenges in the world, and that’s one that I tell you, I’m not someone who historically is mincing his words, I’m not someone who is afraid to speak out, as you know, I never was right. 

Pete Newsome  13:31
It’s not who I was in high school. But I’m a little afraid of this young generation because, you know, I’m trying to find where that balance is of saying, “This is what you really, really need to know and you’re not going to like it.” 

Pete Newsome  13:49
I mean, I can have those conversations with my children. I have those conversations with kids I coach in sports, I’m sure you have those conversations with the scouts. But to have it with the masses is a bit terrifying to me. And I’m not someone who was afraid of those kinds of things.

Glen McCall  14:05
Yeah, it is and I think, as I’ve gotten older, I’m sure you’re dealing with this now too, right? Like, it seems like every new person that I’m hiring, they’re literally a kid, you know, and they could be my child. 

Pete Newsome  14:18
Yes. 

Glen McCall  14:18
And that’s the first time I am at that point, now it’s like yeah. 

Glen McCall  14:23
And not like, you know, I had you when I was 13. Like, I’d have you in my 20s. And you could be, so but the thing that I’m fascinated by and I’ve been studying more and more about this is you know, we hear about millennials.

Glen McCall  14:37
That’s actually a really prejudicial thing to say, right to prejudge, but what I am fascinated by is and we talked about this a little bit before but is what really kind of motivates them. So they’re really capable of great things and amazing creativity, I would say a lot more creativity than I’ve been asked at their age. 

Pete Newsome  15:01
I agree, yeah. 

Glen McCall  15:02
And so how do you harness that? And tell them that, you know, god, I’m going to use this quote from Ryan Holiday, but “The obstacle is the way”, like how to make them understand that, yes, this is going to be tough. And yes, you have some good ideas, but the execution of this idea is going to be challenging, extremely challenging.

Glen McCall  15:25
I think, Pete, I think the way you get through that is the nature of intent. Right?

Glen McCall  15:31
And so us both being parents, I think it comes a little bit easier to us, which is, you know, this is not done to hurt you. This is done to, you know, prepare you because this is how it’s going to be. And that’s not the world I invented, nor is it the world I inherited, it’s just the world. And this is how our journey is going to go. 

Glen McCall  15:56
And there is no journey I’m aware of that isn’t beset with obstacles and challenges and oftentimes insurmountable ones that appear that way at least. And then they get surmounted and then your worldview changes. 

Pete Newsome  16:11
Well if there weren’t challenges, right, then there wouldn’t be rewarding. And I think about that a lot with our kids, it’s different because you can say they’re a captive audience, when it comes to taking the advice, they don’t really have much of a choice. 

Pete Newsome  16:30
And, you know, I’m sure, maybe you’re luckier than me, but it’s often met with eye rolls. And in the moment, I don’t think it’s, you know, anyone wants it right? Well, they never want it. But, you know, after the fact, the hope is that they appreciate it, you know, that it sticks at some level, what we’re trying to do now is, how do we share that to a broader group? 

Pete Newsome  16:57
Who is not a captive audience who chooses, you know, who gets a lot of bad advice elsewhere. I mean, that’s what I’ve realized, as a manager, that’s what I’ve realized, being in staffing. It’s what I’ve realized, as a parent of four, I’m sure you’ve managed a large group, as you said, a lot of younger people. 

Pete Newsome  17:15
I’m not sure if you’ve had the same perspective on that. But there’s a lot of the younger generation, and this is dating myself, right? But what so be it? It almost is like the setup for a frustrating time, because of the parenting, and I think this has changed. 

Pete Newsome  17:39
But for the past, much of the past 15 years, my observation has been that parents want their kids to be happy at a young age, they want them to be satisfied and content, not frustrated, and not have to struggle at a young age, which is kind of the entire, like entirely opposite of the way we were raised.

Glen McCall  18:00
It is and I think, you know, I was thinking about this today. And you’re only a year younger than me. So you’ll remember this, there were gas lines, like, we waited in a car for 45 minutes to go through a gas pump.

Pete Newsome  18:14
Right. 

Glen McCall  18:14
I don’t know if you remember that I was about six or seven or eight years old. 

Glen McCall  18:19
But like, those ideas are just so foreign to people, right, like holy smokes, like I had to really tighten. We’ve had a period of unprecedented economic growth. We’ve had an unprecedented period of peace. And I talked about this with people all the time, because of the negativity of it all, it’s so tough right now, it’s just not true. 

Glen McCall  18:41
It’s just not true, we have the least amount of violence of humans against other humans as a percentage in the history of the world. And so you bring up an excellent point, which is, in light of all that good news, how do you develop calluses? Right, like how do you develop the rough skin that carries you through a difficult period? 

Glen McCall  19:06
And you know, there’s nothing but an experience that will allow you to do that. And so, I’m hopeful that, you know, I’m hopeful that those kids they will have it they’re humans, and every human that has ever gone through something like this, their vast majority and find the will and the way to get there because that’s why we’re so prosperous today. 

Glen McCall  19:14
I mean, we have kids that are products of us, and we’re products of our grandparents. 

Pete Newsome  19:40
Yeah, the concern that I have as a parent and generationally is the product of good times isn’t necessarily as motivated as the individual who’s a product of tough times. But I also think motivation comes in at different times in different ways.

Glen McCall  19:58
Absolutely.

Pete Newsome  20:00
I am excited because this is such an incredible time of opportunity. Where as you said, there’s never been a better time to be alive. Never been a better time to live on this planet, even though we’re surrounded by what seems to be a lot of difficulty and challenges. And yeah, the world is not the world has never been a good place. 

Pete Newsome  20:22
I mean, the world has always been wrought with danger and difficulty and disease. And none of these things are new. Now, Twitter’s new, right? So the way things are in our face 24/7, that’s all new. But I spent some time researching diseases around the world when COVID was coming out. 

Pete Newsome  20:43
And there are things that I had no, malaria, for example, I had no idea how many people died of malaria, how many kids die of starvation every year. And we’ve lost our minds over, you know, over COVID not to say it wasn’t serious. But these kind of things are not new. Far from it, and they’re going on right now. We just weren’t paying attention and so that’s the difference is our awareness is evolved.

Glen McCall  21:13
I think that’s true and, you know, I have a theory on this. I don’t think there’s any proof of this, but I think we certainly have the most amount of generations alive now. So, I mean, I saw someone’s Instagram it is incredible. It’s like these, six women and they were all, you know, one descendent of the other.

Pete Newsome  21:34
Yeah, that’s never happened before.

Glen McCall  21:37
Never happened, right? So what happens then is, and you know, just kind of a crazy theory, but I think we haven’t really been aware of our own mortality. One of the things I lost, we’ll talk about it later, perhaps but, you know, I went through a difficult period where my mother had really bad health problems, and it was all through high school, and then through college, and then graduation.

Glen McCall  22:02
So I kind of got a real keen eye on the fact that, hey, we got a limited time here to play, and how important that is to take advantage of the time that you have. But I think there’s a lot of people that haven’t and God bless you know, what a miracle that you haven’t had as many family funerals as people our age did 40 years ago.

Glen McCall  22:25
I think all those things contribute to how impactful a disaster can be, quote, on quote, or a significant event. But relatively speaking again, we’re in blessed time. 

Pete Newsome  22:41
No doubt we are. So let’s explore that because I kind of want to walk through your professional history, which has started of course, with you know, that time in school, and I did not know what you just said, I didn’t know that about your mom. 

Pete Newsome  22:57
You mentioned early and when we got on we weren’t close, we were friendly. We had a good mutual friend that brought us together. But I had no idea. 

Glen McCall  23:07
So it was interesting, she was about 13 or 14 years old, she had smoked all of her life. She had emphysema and dad’s on a trip and you know, I’m caring for her blue-lipped, because of lack of oxygen. And so just went through a really difficult health period at that time. My brother was 12 years older than I am so I’m kind of like an only child and my dad was 47 years old when I was born. And my mom was 40, which at that time was pretty old.

Glen McCall  23:39
So I never did, there was no throwing the ball in the backyard. There was no like not my dad was too tired. He was 65 when I graduated high school, you know, so I’m thinking about even now, like, I felt like I had kids late. And it was nowhere close to my father. 

Glen McCall  23:54
So I went through that experience and my dad was an electrical engineer and really believed in education. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to perform well in school. And I did, I took all the AP classes and got this full ride to Eckerd, which was amazing. 

Glen McCall  24:09
But I went as a pre-med student, so I was going to be a doctor and spent about two years taking unbelievably challenging courses. And the second semester of my sophomore year, I took Botany II, Calc II, Chem II, and Physics II. And so anyone who’s ever been in those programs, and Pete, you saw me in college, I enjoyed my college life, right? 

Glen McCall  24:34
So I’ll never forget when I entered the Biology program, they said there were two hours out of class for every one hour in class. Well, my class schedule was Monday through, Wednesday, and Friday. It was like 9:00 to 3:30, because you had labs. And then Tuesday and Thursday, I had nine to one classes. 

Glen McCall  24:52
So when you add all that up, it was like four hours of sleep. And as you well know, I like playing beach volleyball. I like doing all the fun things that we did the weekend you came and visited. But I took all those courses a second semester, my sophomore year, and there was a big load. And, you know, I think I averaged a C+. 

Glen McCall  25:11
I’m going with a full ride Honors Program scholarship and so my father called, and I mean, I love this to this day. It’s a great story, but I love the fact that he did this. 

Glen McCall  25:21
He calls me and says, “I need a meeting with your academic advisor.” And he calls him, we didn’t have cell phones, you know, that, right? There was a phone in the dorm, I was like, “Okay”, and so the next thing, you know, I got a meeting with the head of the Biology department and my father, and we all sit down at this little round table. 

Glen McCall  25:43
The professor says, Mr. McCall, what would you like to meet about? And he said, “Well, I think it’s time that all of us came to terms with the fact that my son’s not going to be a physician.”

Glen McCall  26:01
Unless he ends up at the Guadalajara medical school, you know, he’s like, really busting my chops and I’m sitting there, and I was just blown away. And I was like, oh, yeah, the gigs up, right like that. That’s it and because he essentially said, “This school is very expensive, we cannot afford it. If he loses his scholarship, going down this academic path, we’ve got a problem.” 

Glen McCall  26:24
So, you know, I’m a big believer in passion. You and I have talked about this, I think it carries so many people I’ve met that are extremely successful. And the reality was, that I didn’t have a passion for medicine. I had an aptitude for it, I had an aptitude for the science of it. But it wasn’t something I really wanted to do at the end of the day. So I ended up switching majors and graduated in four years, which was amazing. But I took 40. I took 22 credit hours. 

Pete Newsome  26:50
Oh, my did you really? 

Glen McCall  26:53
You didn’t say he fought. 

Glen McCall  26:53
In my senior year, I took six classes a semester. And because I had to finish my father, he fought in the second war. 

Glen McCall  26:53
He was a civil engineer because he was flat foot, he broke his back in the war, took the GI Bill, and graduated in engineering school in three years. 

Pete Newsome  27:12
Wow. 

Glen McCall  27:12
So the idea that I was going to take four years was like, out of your mind?

Pete Newsome  27:16
He’s not cutting you a break.

Glen McCall  27:18
Our mutual buddy was taking five years, and everybody I knew was taking five years. And he’s like, we don’t do college in five years like four years is the limit. So I ended up finishing all that. 

Glen McCall  27:29
And I graduated, but about that time, you know, coming back to my mother’s health, she was really bad. She was on a full time tracheotomy and ventilator. So really, neither one of them come to my graduation, and my brother never went to college. So it was like, this was a big event, and couldn’t come to college. 

Glen McCall  27:51
And so, you know, at that time, I was pretty lost, I would say, glad I got everything done. And I got my degree, but I didn’t know what I was going to do. And literally spent a good part of my senior year in the hospital, there were months on end that they were in the hospital, my father also ended up having lung cancer, thankfully recovered, so it was just tough. 

Glen McCall  28:13
You know, I certainly had my good times when I could have my good times, but I mean really, life hit me pretty quick on that. And so, then I graduated, and you know, we didn’t have something like the finding career zen podcast, I didn’t know what I was going to do. 

Glen McCall  28:31
So there was a career day and someone from Metropolitan Life showed up, and I was a pretty likable dude. And I thought, well, yeah, let’s see if we can make some money. And, you know, I went to work for that company. Great training, but it was like, “Hey, call all your buddies that have money.”

Pete Newsome  28:51
Well, that’s, uh, you don’t have any buddies with money.

Glen McCall  28:56
We were we’re trying to figure out how to split dollar beer night. Like, I mean, so it was a real interesting thing. I went to work for him, though. But the training was incredible. So about that time, my mother had passed away, and I met the love of my life. Believe it or not, and she was one that it was like, I mean, I love her. 

Glen McCall  29:17
We’ve been married 28 years now, but I love her to death, but she had her act together, man. She was like the manager of a store and like, she just knew what she was doing. And I fell in love with her, our buddy Tom, who you know, we met her at a place and I said, “I’m going to marry that girl.” 

Glen McCall  29:37
He said, “You’re so full of it.” 

Glen McCall  29:38
As you well know I was voted class flirt of 1988. He thought that was a bunch of nonsense, but I did. I fell in love there from the moment I saw her. 

Pete Newsome  29:47
That’s great. 

Glen McCall  29:48
And a big part of it was that she was just you know, she wouldn’t buy any of my nonsense she put me to the task and, so I really respect her immensely. Well, my mom passed, and my dad was doing pretty well. And she was from Oklahoma. So we wanted to move back, she wanted to move back to Oklahoma. 

Glen McCall  30:05
So it seemed like an opportune time, I went to work for an agency here in Oklahoma that specialized in property casualty as opposed to like MetLife. And I went around and I sold group health insurance plans to municipalities throughout the state of Oklahoma. 

Glen McCall  30:21
So it’s incredible to even think about now I was 24, maybe 25 years old and I’m literally presenting with an accent I understand I have a little bit of an oaky accent now. I did not have that then and I would go around and present to city council members in small towns in Oklahoma, and it was just baptism by fire, great experience wouldn’t trade it for anything. 

Pete Newsome  30:48
That’s not easy, it’s not easy to, you know, to move to a place where you know, nobody other than who you moved with, right, you moved for a great reason. I did not know that so that’s interesting. I just haven’t had the opportunity to ask how the heck did you end up in Oklahoma of all places? 

Pete Newsome  31:05
It’s not the most natural place to move for as a Floridian. But, you know, you were motivated for the right reason. So that makes sense. But going and selling anything, which is difficult, especially when what you’re selling is not the most unique product. 

Pete Newsome  31:23
You know, it’s one thing to sell a Tesla, it’s another thing to sell insurance coverage.

Glen McCall  31:30
The excitement!

Pete Newsome  31:31
10 other companies sell the same thing. So how did you get through that?

Glen McCall  31:37
You know, I think this is where those analytical skills that make me good at science and math and so forth, I was able to, analyze pretty quickly what some of those advantages were in many cases, too bad. But in many cases, it was priced, but there were benefits that you needed to talk about, and so forth. 

Glen McCall  31:54
And I could go through that process pretty quickly. And I’ve always had a pretty good ability to communicate those on terms that aren’t as complicated, let’s say. So, how did I make that shift? I don’t know, I think, you know, my mother’s passing and other stuff had a big impact on how I kind of viewed the world. 

Glen McCall  32:12
So I wasn’t afraid, it was like, whatever, you know, it’s not the worst thing that can ever happen to a person is to get, you know, I never got booed down at a city council meeting. But you know, you can see the blank faces, it’s like, alright, you know, so be it. 

Glen McCall  32:26
But it taught me a lot about getting a thick skin, right? So learning a lot about how to understand what other people are carrying around, I got a guy named John Martin, I’ll never forget this. So when I was with MetLife, and I had been making a bunch of calls, you know, and it was god awful. 

Glen McCall  32:47
I just got beaten down like you wouldn’t believe and, and he comes over and he’s like, “What’s wrong”? I said, “People don’t want to talk to me, It’s horrible”. This is the horrible worst thing. And he said, “Hey, man, like, don’t worry about that”. He goes, “Tell me about the last person you talked to.”

Glen McCall  33:04
I said, “Well, there’s this woman and I heard a baby in the background”. Yeah, so like, she’s washing one kid in the sink, and the other one is on her hip, and she’s working the pan in the kitchen. And he’s like, “Why would, that’s not about you”? Right? It’s not about you, It’s about them. 

Glen McCall  33:22
And I thought, oh, that was something that I really, that has helped me a lot in my career understanding. And golly, particularly in the last two years, understanding people’s reactions, you know, and I think we’ve been under so much stress. 

Glen McCall  33:35
So when you see something really unusual, you go, “Oh, that may not be about me. Right”? We tend to internalize, so that was a really good lesson.

Pete Newsome  33:42
Yeah and it’s something that being in the staffing business, I talked to our new hires quite a bit about, which is you have to understand, in any situation, people are going to do what’s best for them what they believe is best for themselves. 

Pete Newsome  33:58
And you have to operate with that in mind all the time. It’s never about what you want, It’s about what they want. If you’re having to sell anything to anyone. And unless you’re focused on that, you’re not going to be very good. You’re not going to do it for very long probably.

Glen McCall  34:13
That’s exactly right which leads back to this being inquisitive and understanding people and understanding what their challenges are. It’s so, frankly, it’s you know, it’s the nature of being helpful, which is to say, you’ve got to understand where someone’s at if you want to be helpful.

Glen McCall  34:34
It doesn’t matter if it’s your spouse, your neighbor, or your kids. Like you have to understand where they’re at to offer any of those things.

Pete Newsome  34:43
Why do you think that’s so hard for people to do? I mean, look right now, where everything is divisive, any issue seemingly just neutral issues, right? Unimportant things, insignificant things, people take a stand on the question and get in get angry that the opposing view exists. 

Pete Newsome  35:06
Why do you think that is? As humans? I mean, we should be inherently empathetic right? To some degree.

Glen McCall  35:13
Yeah I really do think we’re finding Biology on so much of this, I think, you know, I have three sons, right? So I jokingly say to them all the time, and they’re well aware of this, that the male frontal lobe doesn’t fully develop until it’s 30. And that’s where all these higher thoughts of helpfulness and all the great things that create art philosophy, and some people develop that sooner, women certainly do. 

Glen McCall  35:42
But I think we’re pre programmed to kind of fight or flight, you know, we, and that’s an autonomic response, where if we’re challenged, and we’re naturally kind of self-centered, I think any organism probably is right. So we’re in this fight or flight mechanism all the time. 

Glen McCall  35:42
And we as higher evolved, you know, beings have to go, okay, no way to, like, this is not the time to fight, right? This is not and when you look at God, art, philosophy, everything, and it’s always about this nature, of well Judo, right? Any of these things using someone else’s ability against them. 

Glen McCall  35:42
I wouldn’t even say that, but just not fighting. How about that? Not fight. And so I think it’s hard for us to avoid that innate desire to be in that contentious mode. Does that make sense?

Pete Newsome  36:01
Yeah, it does. I’ve evolved over time with that I’m not even far from perfect. But you know, things that bothered me when I was younger, as you said the other 30 it wasn’t I don’t know that that’s a magical number. But for me, it was more about going from being insecure to secure and how that transition happens I don’t know. 

Pete Newsome  37:01
But I wish someone had told me at a younger age, like, chill out, right? Like, you have plenty of time. Continue in the right direction, right? Don’t waste your time but enjoy it along the way. And if I could go back to my younger self, I probably would take things a little more seriously at a younger age. 

Pete Newsome  37:25
But also, I would have just enjoyed the moment more and instead of looking for something to worry about, which was sort of my nature, or be bothered by or want something I didn’t have or be focused on other people and what they did have which thank goodness that passed. 

Pete Newsome  37:42
But you know, it is a curious thing as to why we aren’t just naturally just more accommodating and flexible and easy to get along with.

Glen McCall  37:51
Yeah, yeah, it’s a good question. I mentioned 30. But you know, I was, golly, I was 32 when I had my first one, my first child, and that was a pivotal moment. For me, both professionally, and personally, everything was like, oh, then it really hit oh, this is really not about me, like at all. 

Glen McCall  38:15
And, it helped inform my intentions and my outlook from that point forward. So when you mentioned what you’re saying, which is, you know, that envy, you don’t want to have the seven deadly sins or whatever, all those things that enter into your mind more often than not come out of insecurity, right? 

Glen McCall  38:38
And insecurity comes out of, I think a natural state of being insecure, right? Like not knowing what to do.

Pete Newsome  38:46
I mean, maybe it’s insecure, I think it was for me, but it was more of just lack of contentedness, however, you want to phrase that.

Glen McCall  38:55
It is.

Pete Newsome  38:56
Right now in the world that seems to be a pretty prevalent thing. How can you be content when you’re, you know, when you can’t afford to pay your bills? Right? How can you be continuous when you’re being told you can’t leave the house without being fearful? 

Pete Newsome  39:12
I mean, look, I’m in Florida, as you know, and even today, I went to the lab to have some blood work done, they’re wearing masks. And I’m looking around going, we’re still doing this? There’s everyone in the lobby, every worker, and still, you know, going to work. 

Pete Newsome  39:33
And I was thinking in my mind like you’re having to come to work fearful and the lady clearly who made me where it, she was doing her job. I was like, wow, why are we still doing this? I thought she was going to be with me. She wasn’t, she said, “Well, because it’s a safe thing to do”. And like, wow, what a well, a frustrating thing.

Glen McCall  39:53
You’ve hit into something, you know, and we’ve talked a little bit about this during the last few years which faith was an incredible help to me throughout that process. 

Glen McCall  40:04
And you know, I don’t think there’s any accident regardless of your creed or theology, but I don’t think there’s any accident than, within the Bible the words that God speaks to their people more than any others fear not. 

Pete Newsome  40:21
Right. 

Glen McCall  40:21
And, so I don’t think that’s an accident, regardless of what your position is on the Bible, whether you believe it or not, or anything.

Pete Newsome  40:30
Yes, either someone said it, or someone wrote it, either way, it ended up there, and it stayed for a long, long time.

Glen McCall  40:35
It’s an ancient text that’s lasted 2,000 years. And so now you have to explore, like, what does fear do for you? So we talked a little bit about scouting. These kids are awesome. I mean, you know, I’ve got three boys in it one’s an Eagle Scout already. 

Glen McCall  40:55
But, you know, we talk about this all the time of slaying your dragons, right? One of which was God, I’ve been afraid of caves, you know, tight, controlled spaces. With some other adult leaders, I got into a cave Pete, and I’m telling you, like, I had to get on my belly and crawl with my elbows, for, like, 30 feet. 

Glen McCall  41:16
And it’s just, I mean, the most mentally terrifying point in my life, and I almost cracked my head open, just jumping from being in that confined space. But, you know, there is something to be said for nothing to fear, but fear itself. Like, we are not meant by whatever divine creator, you believe we are not meant to live in a state of fear. 

Glen McCall  41:40
And, and I think that it informs what we do. It formed what I did from a career perspective, like, oh, I don’t know if I can do that, that’s taken a risk. I mean, look what you do within your own business. 

Pete Newsome  41:55
Also motivated by fear, by the way. 

Glen McCall  41:57
Yes. 

Pete Newsome  41:58
I mean, I started the business because I was fearful.

Glen McCall  42:01
Okay.

Pete Newsome  42:02
Isn’t that weird? 

Glen McCall  42:03
Tell me about it.

Pete Newsome  42:03
Right? It’s not what you would think, what most people think. The catalyst was a couple of things I talked about doing it for 10 years, but we can call it afraid, right could never justify doing it well bills to pay, getting married, getting a job and having a baby buying a house having another baby, there’s never a good time to do it. 

Pete Newsome  42:24
It was just taking a risk, right? And there was an inherent fear of taking that risk. The ultimate catalyst for me was when at the time I was mid-30s, my VP who I’ve never told this publicly, before, who was an amazing guy did everything right.

Pete Newsome  42:43
I mean, he managed a region of 300 people, I was working for a very large organization. And he’s just a great guy who did everything right, he was reorged out of his job one day, and he wasn’t as good enough buddies with the guy who made the decision or the lady who made the decision as the other people were who didn’t get reorged out. 

Pete Newsome  42:43
So they took two layers of VP and made it into one and he was on the outside looking in. And that scared the hell out of me because I thought, here I am with a Poli Sci degree, which qualifies me to do nothing. Alright, other than sell, which is what I was doing. You know, I have a GPA that I’ve never put on paper, right? And never will, I will lie to my kids about it. 

Pete Newsome  43:35
No, no, not at all. But I thought he was in the role that I’m aspiring to be in. And yet he’s now out of job because of someone else, and it was beyond his control. And so my fear was that I was going to end up that way. And so I didn’t start my business because I was calm. I mean I was confident to a degree I knew I could sell I made my whole living that way. 

Pete Newsome  44:00
And so that was a huge piece of it. But I was afraid not to start because I was like, I’d rather have the ball in my hands than have my fate determined by someone I don’t know, who he was at a corporate office four or five, six levels above me, whatever it is. So that was actually a huge wake up call for me and that was a catalyst to step off the cliff and do it

Glen McCall  44:23
That still is awfully scary. I mean, you know, you look at all the things that go into that. And I did the same, you know, I worked for this insurance agency, and I went out on my own and started my own agency. 

Pete Newsome  44:37
So tell me what led to that because it is a huge decision to make and people look at you like you’re nuts when you do it.

Glen McCall  44:43
So for me, and I think you and I have talked about this, but I’m not sure like, and God bless. There are people that are very good at this, I’m more relationship based. I just am right? I think from a business perspective, relationships lie last, whereas transactions are at the whim of a lot of different forces, market forces, and commodity forces doesn’t matter what it is. 

Glen McCall  45:09
And I’ll tell you this is what led to it. So I’m calling on the small city, which will not be named in the state of Oklahoma, and I’ve got the better deal. And I know I’ve got the better deal. And it’s not like close, It’s not like, well, I can understand. So what do I do, I decide to play a little politics, I call every single one of the city council. 

Glen McCall  45:34
And I talk with them about this deal that this city manager will not let you see, wasn’t even going to be presented. 

Pete Newsome  45:41
Oh, wow. 

Glen McCall  45:42
And so I go in there, and I win the deal. 

Glen McCall  45:48
I win the deal and as I’m leaving, I’m so excited. I’m 24 or 25, and I walked out of there, and the city manager goes, you know, every agent in the state is going to quote us next year, because you will never write this again. 

Pete Newsome  46:02
Really? 

Glen McCall  46:04
And I thought, oh, that’s what the business I’m in like this is quoted every single year. And I’m going to be doing this every single year until I’m 68 years old like this is not the business I want to be in. So I literally said I’ve got to be in the relationship business, and so in this financial services business, where people’s situation changes, and so forth so that I have relationships. 

Glen McCall  46:32
And as their situation changes, I can provide different products and services, as opposed to one product to a multitude of people. So that was a huge shift. And that was, I literally said I can’t do this, I am gray enough as it is. But if I had done that forget, I’ve looked 70 years old right now. 

Glen McCall  46:52
That was the big catalyst. I said I can’t do this. So I got into a relationship based business, it was primarily directed at retirees and senior citizens. And it worked really, really well. And I made a good living. But as you well know, when you’re self employed, there are months when you’ve made 10X. And there are months that you’ve made X.

Pete Newsome  47:13
And sometimes years.

Glen McCall  47:15
And a lot of zeros. And so when mom was wanting to have babies.

Pete Newsome  47:20
Yep. 

Glen McCall  47:21
And so forth, she literally said, “Are we going to win a family”? And I thought, yeah, that’s probably a good idea. So I started looking at it. And I actually had an opportunity to sell my agency, which worked out to be a really good financial move for me. And I was kind of lost but I will say it was a very lonely business. 

Glen McCall  47:40
I didn’t get as much of that team that six to ten people that I’m interacting with all the time. And so our good buddy, that you and I both know. “So why don’t you try banking”? And I’m like, “Banking”? Well, you know, he was smart. Right out of college, he got into an internship program and started climbing the corporate ladder. 

Glen McCall  48:00
I was 29 years old and I was no longer in that window of people who said, “Hey, let’s do this”. And so I literally worked as a relationship banker or retail banker. So if you went into a location, so I went from, hey, I do whatever I want, whenever I want into a corporate America role, where I literally, I mean, lunches were discussed and when people were taking lunch.

Pete Newsome  48:27
You’re accountable to other people for your time for where you are. I mean, how was that transition? Because usually, it’s the opposite, right? And I struggled with going from having a manager to not and that was hard, and it took me years to become comfortable with not having anyone to ask for help from and those sort of things.

Pete Newsome  48:49
But how was it going the other way? Because that would be a difficult thing for me right now. I know, but it’s not completely uncommon either to go from, you know, back to corporate.

Glen McCall  49:01
It wasn’t easy, but you know, it’s one of those things that I think has really helped me in my career because there are times I’ve been really emotional, right? And you bring all that baggage but I mean, it was a little bit humbling.

Pete Newsome  49:16
You were never emotional. 

Glen McCall  49:18
No. 

Pete Newsome  49:19
You emotional? 

Glen McCall  49:22
Now you’re making fun of me. 

Pete Newsome  49:23
I am a little bit, yeah.

Glen McCall  49:24
But I started realizing like, okay, this is where your life is like. And I did have a kid come and I was like, okay, so you’re going to have to do this a different way. And that was how I was going to treat it like there’s no internship program. I’m not going to learn how to analyze credit financially like I’m going to have to do that on my own. 

Glen McCall  49:28
Like there’s no support system here. But the one thing and you know, this is a powerful lesson I’ve said this to many people as they’ve advanced in their career, it’s like, I also knew what the job was and I did the job really well.

Pete Newsome  50:05
Right. 

Glen McCall  50:06
I didn’t bring my ego into it and say, oh, my goodness, I’ve been out on my own for seven years. No, I knew what the job was, I did the job very well and I just had this conversation the other day with someone in my organization, it’s like, and I’m not talking 10% above my goal.

Pete Newsome  50:24
Right. 

Glen McCall  50:24
I’m talking 200% of my goal. And then you know, the eyes light up, what do you mean? I said, yeah, that’s, I literally said, okay, if I’m going to have any opportunity to be where I am today, the effort cannot be even marginally. It can’t even be excellent. It’s got to be exemplary. 

Glen McCall  50:43
Like it’s got to be just beyond. So I got in that role and I did it for like four and a half years, and then an opportunity to become a small business lender, which was, I mean, these are business loans that are limited to 250,000. 

Glen McCall  50:59
So I’m dealing with a lot of closely held like, usually mom and pop companies, they want to buy a band, they want a $50,000 line of credit, which by the way, I love those businesses they are the backbone of our country. 

Pete Newsome  51:12
They’re putting it all on the line with those levels, right?

Glen McCall  51:16
No doubt, and so yeah, so I did that. And it was like, the same thing. I’m like, alright, there’s no doubt what I have to do here and I just killed it. And I put in all the hours now, we made some really difficult decisions, like in my case, my wife decided to stay home with our kids. 

Glen McCall  51:35
We were probably not in a financial position to really, but and I don’t mean this, people can choose to do whatever they want. But we found that there were some financial savings to her staying at home, right?

Pete Newsome  51:47
Sure, I was reading an article about that earlier this week about mothers deciding whether it makes sense to go back to work given childcare costs, expenses, gas, having a second car, all of those things, you know, at the end of the day, when you look at your paycheck, what’s coming in versus what’s going out, there’s a trade off.

Pete Newsome  51:47
Not to mention, we can ignore this, it’s not popular, perhaps, however, I can tell you that my success, my ability to succeed has been supported by Jen not working. Because, you know, there are times where someone has to go to the doctor, someone has to go to the store, someone has to take care of life and with one kid, let alone multiple kids. 

Pete Newsome  52:36
There’s a lot that goes into taking care of life. And I’ve never had to sacrifice professional professionally. And, you know, so I have a lot of admiration for people who do but with no question, I mean, it’s tough. 

Pete Newsome  52:49
I’m fortunate, but we’ve struggled, right? We made choices that were right for us, which meant. 

Glen McCall  52:55
That’s right.

Pete Newsome  52:56
Having less money at times, than we would have because we’re looking ahead, I mean, there’s a trade off.

Glen McCall  53:02
There is a trade off and I want to be very clear, that was my wife’s decision. Like she wanted to be home with her children. And so she, she raised them, in fact, you know, golly, five, six years ago. And this is a joke, but I meant it when I said it. 

Glen McCall  53:21
So I’ll say it here, which is, she said, I want to go back to work. And I was like, can you please set up an LLC, and we’ll call it McCall domestic Engineering Company, Inc, I don’t care what whatever, I literally will write you a check to run our household because your services are so valued to our family, right? 

Glen McCall  53:41
Like, I’m willing to put literal dollars and cents, but she wanted to, and she’s actually a teacher now and she loves it. And I wouldn’t deny her the right to go out and work for any circumstance. But I was able to dedicate a lot more time in my career, I think than if we would have been juggling some of those things together. That was just our personal choice.

Pete Newsome  54:01
Sure, no doubt. And it’s what’s right for you isn’t necessarily what’s right, for anyone else. We know that. 

Glen McCall  54:07
That’s right.

Glen McCall  54:09
I have seen people do it that both are and it works out great. 

Pete Newsome  54:12
Absolutely. 

Glen McCall  54:13
So in our case, you know, I did that and then literally got into more of a commercial lender role, and that kind of opened up, but go ahead.

Pete Newsome  54:22
Well, you know, you said some of the profound that I don’t want to, we keep kind of blowing by some really important things that I know we could talk all night and we don’t have that much time. But you talked about the transition going back to work and you went to work for a bank, and you couldn’t be average you weren’t, you know, content to just be good or even great. 

Pete Newsome  54:45
You wanted to be exemplary. I think those are words used. I had a conversation with my daughter who’s a recent college graduate the other day, and I said you know, I don’t expect you to do this. What I’m going to say and I don’t expect anyone to do this. 

Pete Newsome  54:59
So if my Employees are listening right now I’m not talking to you, okay? I’m speaking in general. But if someone who was on the uptick in their career, we’ll just say, right, someone who hasn’t yet arrived where their content to remain, which is pretty much everyone, right? Certainly, I’m still there. 

Pete Newsome  55:20
But if someone came to me as an employee and said, I’m going to do whatever it takes, I will work nights, I will work weekends. You tell me what to do, and I will do it, and then I’ll ask for more. Right? 

Pete Newsome  55:35
I may surprise you with this answer.

Pete Newsome  55:35
If that employee existed, how valuable would that employee be to the organization? How valuable would that employee be to your organization right now? If someone came to you and said that and meant it, and spent the next year working around the clock effectively and this, this was a conversation, maybe there were drinks involved I don’t know.

Pete Newsome  56:00
You might, well for me, I would say, wow, that person would be so valuable, and stand out, right and be recognized and have opportunity to advance. When I look back and think that’s what I did when I started my company. I worked around the clock, I didn’t take a break, I outworked, I thought I have to outwork everyone to survive, which I did. 

Pete Newsome  56:28
And that was my whole focus, to the detriment of other things in my life, quite frankly, I mean, to the detriment of my wife and my children. I had, you know, a newborn when I started my business, and I know that, but it’s what I was focused on doing. 

Pete Newsome  56:45
And so I just thought why does that not happen more often? Because you just described that that’s exactly what you did. Right? And, you were successful as a result and that’s not a coincidence I wouldn’t think.

Glen McCall  56:57
I don’t think that yeah, and my motivation, you know, you talked a little bit about fear of ending up like this person who had been displaced. But mine was just a real deep humility of I didn’t do these other steps, right? 

Glen McCall  57:12
But you had done it on top of all that.

Glen McCall  57:12
All those steps would have total seven or eight or ten years worth of work, which would have been avoided I would not have had to do that if I had done all those steps beforehand. So I was fully aware of it.

Glen McCall  57:28
No, there’s no doubt. And there are times now where it’s like, wow, I’m, I’m working harder than I ever have. I mean, and we talked about PPP and so forth. If you would have told me at that time in my career, I’m going to put in 20 hours a day. Like, what are you talking about? I’m a banker.

Pete Newsome  57:45
You were less than everyone.

Glen McCall  57:46
Yeah, right. And of course, those days are gone, by the way just to dispel that rumor.

Pete Newsome  57:51
Well, wait, but you said you would defer your answer may surprise me.

Glen McCall  57:55
I will say this, that one of the things and I’ve worked for a really incredible company and it was a big part of the reason that I chose to come to work here is and we’ve talked a little bit about this with regard to millennials and so forth. 

Glen McCall  58:08
Working for a purpose driven company is really, really important right? So, we put God first, our family second, our jobs third, right? And that’s right on the front door so everybody understands. That’s kind of where we’re at and we also, are going to make great teams. 

Glen McCall  58:30
So I’ve had the occasion on a couple of episodes, since I’ve been in this role, a couple of times to hire one of those people that you just described, and I had to look at my team and go, is that what I need? Right? 

Glen McCall  58:49
Like right now, like, I want a very good player, make no mistake, but my suspicion and my mindset are different than when I again, I had to do what I had to do because I had to protect my family, and so on and so forth. 

Glen McCall  59:06
And it spilled over things like ego and so forth. But my experience has been generally speaking that when you meet that individual, generally it’s about I’m going to do whatever I need to do and I’ll be here and it’s not for me or it’s not for we it’s for me. 

Glen McCall  59:25
And so the point I’m making is I’m not sure I certainly think you can have people like that, that can be exemplars of how that works. But I think it’s got to be the intention and the focus has got to be towards helping other people, not towards what it does for them.

Pete Newsome  59:44
Well, and I’ll think through this more because I haven’t actually had this conversation out loud since it first came up with my daughter where I was saying, If I could go back to me at 22 or 23, where I didn’t have children I didn’t you know, I wasn’t married. Why didn’t I do that? 

Pete Newsome  1:00:07
Why didn’t I take advantage of that, you know, time to do it, and most people don’t. And I just think it would stand out. And part of the reason it’s been on my mind right now is, you know, with this new business, this new website, zengig, and what I want it to become for others, right, as well as for myself if I’m being honest because I want this to be something amazing, right? 

Pete Newsome  1:00:31
I don’t want to do it and have it be good enough, I want it to be excellent. And I can’t articulate why, I just if I’m going to do it, I want it to be as good as it can possibly be. But I know that in order for it to be the best that it can be It’s going to require a level of focus and commitment. 

Pete Newsome  1:00:50
That means I have to go back to that mode I was in 18 years ago when I started a staffing company, where it’s going to be to the detriment of other things. Like I was saying, and I’m on the edge, I haven’t yet made that commitment. 

Pete Newsome  1:01:03
Because I know what it means and I know it’s blinders. And I know it’s my family is going to suffer, my relationships, my friendships, are going to suffer, and my health will probably suffer. And though that’s a tough place to be, as you know, at my age.

Glen McCall  1:01:18
I’m going to challenge you as your friend. I think that’s the 25 year old Pete. I think the age Pete now is understands how to do that a little bit better. Pete’s a little bit smarter, Pete uses Calendi, and other things to schedule and allocate his time properly. 

Glen McCall  1:01:36
Like, I think one of the things and I think we can tell ourselves a story a lot about how we’ve had experiences, and this is going to be exactly like that. You know, I don’t know, Pete, I think passion carries so much right. And I can sense that your passion around this project is not for your own benefit. 

Glen McCall  1:01:58
Yes, I think you feel driven that you can help. And that’s different than I’m going to succeed, right? There’s a different mindset and whether it’s the experience of raising a family or raising a business, or however you want to do it, you begin for me anyway, and this is godly, you get back to scouting. 

Glen McCall  1:02:19
It really happened with my oldest when he started playing football it was like, you know when you’re a little bit older, and we were a little bit older, not significantly older, but we went to birthing classes and all these kinds of things. And it was like, holy smokes, we’re the older parents, like we had nobody we knew, right? 

Glen McCall  1:02:35
Nobody we knew that was our age had kids. So every time we go to school, it’s like, oh, what are the grandparents here, you know.

Pete Newsome  1:02:41
Which you totally weren’t? You definitely were not the older parents.

Glen McCall  1:02:45
I didn’t know, but I felt that way, right? But when I started getting involved in coaching, when I started getting involved in volunteering, when I started looking at how I can help others, as opposed to my own personal desires needs, and goals, life got a lot better. 

Pete Newsome  1:03:05
Yeah.

Glen McCall  1:03:05
I mean, like infinitely better, like financially better, fulfillment better, put your head on the pillow better, everything. You know, my development of my marriage, my development of my kids, and who they’re turning out to be just got better because that competitive guy who traveled all over the state and sold insurance like he wanted to win.

Glen McCall  1:03:30
Do you know what I mean? He wanted to win and sometimes he wanted to win the battles at the expense of the war. And what’s happened through parenthood and really involved in the community is I’ve started to see a lot bigger purpose than just myself, and so forth. 

Glen McCall  1:03:50
And I think that’s, to me, it seems like, I don’t know, we’ve not talked a bunch about it. But that’s kind of a huge desire for you, is that we can be a resource, this can be a resource for people to go, okay, it’s not a straight line from a career perspective. 

Glen McCall  1:04:06
I mean, it wasn’t too late for me to become a banker. And I had to put in a lot of effort, and a lot of extra effort that I wouldn’t have had to probably put in if I just started at 22. But I didn’t, and that’s okay. 

Glen McCall  1:04:23
But showing more stories of how people can overcome obstacles, because I haven’t even gotten to the career part where, you know, I was a very large institution who I respect immensely, but I got passed over. And I’d be the top producing guy, right? And it’s like, and not only the top producing in this state, like in the company.

Pete Newsome  1:04:45
Yeah, we’re going to have to do this in two parts because it was so many things that I’m not going to have time to ask you today. One of those is I’m going to ask you now I don’t know if you’ve reconciled this in your mind. I don’t know if I’m just reading it as you’re talking. 

Pete Newsome  1:05:07
But you’ve mentioned a level of seriousness that you applied to your career when you moved to Oklahoma that you didn’t have in college. Right? You didn’t even mention your college degree. I didn’t ask you because I know what you majored in. But you didn’t even mention it, right? 

Pete Newsome  1:05:21
Because it was insignificant, not significant enough for you to even mention. So that was clearly not something that drove you. But you met the girl that you committed to marrying. And suddenly, there’s a level of seriousness, you have a child on the way. 

Pete Newsome  1:05:39
The second thing, you mentioned, is a new level of seriousness and commitment. Were those conscious? Was that a conscious thing? Or do you realize that when you look back now and say, this changed me? You had something to be motivated for that you previously didn’t have? Or someones?

Glen McCall  1:05:59
No, I think that’s a good question. I mean, I know what I had, you know, when I married my wife, I had a lot of how do we put this? It was anarchy, you know, like, it was apparent, no direction here, it’s like, and she was just she had it together. 

Glen McCall  1:06:19
I mean, she bought a couch in college, right? Like while she was going to college working full time was like, well, this person has Tracy, she’s got her act together. And I really admire her as much as I loved her, you know, in a real sense. 

Glen McCall  1:06:33
I was like, oh, yeah, so I think it certainly helped me. The birth of the child is just, you know, anybody who’s been there, they know. And fathers, it’s really different. You know, I mean, I jokingly said, because my wife did stay home with the kid, I would come home the first three or four years and the minute I walked through the door, the kids were angry. 

Glen McCall  1:06:56
It was like, who is this intruder? And this is a horrible joke, but I’ve shared it with friends and family, which is I’ve walked through the door and said, okay, Oedipus take it easy. But I understand that exists right? But then I started becoming cool at about four or five years old with them. 

Glen McCall  1:07:15
It was like, oh, this is a pretty cool, dude like, he’s pretty funny and he likes to have fun. My wife’s like, golly, they don’t want to be around me anymore. I said, don’t worry, when they win the Super Bowl, they’ll say, thanks, mom, they will ever say thanks. 

Glen McCall  1:07:28
So I’ve had an appreciation for what that means. Right? Like, I will say that was one thing when it occurred. It felt I mean, it felt chemical to me, like, a chemical so much that when you heard of that first scream that cries from your child, that’s like, and first off, it’s blood curdling. 

Glen McCall  1:07:48
But number two, it was like a real, I mean, organic change. And it wasn’t like, terrifying that was the amazing thing to me. It was like, oh now you know, almost, you know, I vision in my head, like being knighted. You know, like, okay, now. 

Pete Newsome  1:08:12
Yeah.

Pete Newsome  1:08:14
I remember the moment, I mean, other than when I first saw my daughter I was like, man, she’s not what I thought she’d look like, I don’t know what I expected. But that was my first thought my second half a second later was, that this is my responsibility. 

Pete Newsome  1:08:33
It’s a responsibility to a level, like you said, chemical, I think it’s a great way to put I’ve never used that phrase or thought of it that way. But I think that’s appropriate because it was life changing. 

Pete Newsome  1:08:45
It was altering right there where you’d said, this is my number one priority, and everything else is such a distant second, it’s not even on the list. Right? To take care of this like that.

Glen McCall  1:08:58
That’s right and to provide for, in every way, shape, or form. And it’s like, so that was a real visceral moment, and it informed. And I’ll tell you it made any, like effort or pain or suffering or challenges like a wearable.

Pete Newsome  1:09:16
Yeah, well, I mean, because you’re insignificant at that point. 

Glen McCall  1:09:20
Yeah.

Pete Newsome  1:09:21
Right? 

Pete Newsome  1:09:21
Like, and you know, that like, as a father, you know, during that infant period where the mother is so critical, right? 

Glen McCall  1:09:28
Yes. 

Pete Newsome  1:09:29
I mean, in addition to the nine months prior, you’re a bystander, and I even would feel guilty because people would say things like, wait till you feel, you know, you see the sonogram, and you see a baby in there. And I was like, yeah, that’s cool, you know, and like, Jen was super emotional and everything was so meaningful to her. 

Pete Newsome  1:09:47
And then like, wait till you feel the baby kick. And I was like, cool, but I was disconnected from it. Right? Like it wasn’t in me and then, you know, seeing the baby move and all those things, and even when she was born, I’ve told other expectant fathers this. 

Pete Newsome  1:10:02
And maybe this is an indictment of myself, I don’t know. But I’d say even when she was born, even though I felt that and instantly was like, I will kill for her. It is not even a thought. But I think it was that moment of eye contact the first time where she recognized me. 

Pete Newsome  1:10:21
And that was just a whole new level, right, like, so it wasn’t just a one time thing, but I almost felt guilty during when Jen was pregnant with it, because I’m like, I don’t feel everything. I thought, everyone keeps telling me I’m gonna feel what the hell? Until I did. And then it was like, oh, my god, life’s never gonna be the same. 

Glen McCall  1:10:40
Yeah, it is. I think that’s a problem that most, you know, women, wives struggle with is that, I mean, it truly is kind of an apathetic event for us up until that moment, it’s like, you can’t even begin to understand this idea that something’s growing inside of you. 

Glen McCall  1:10:59
Like, how are you not freaking out every night? So you have to kind of distance yourself although I did gain some sympathy weight. They’d like all that ice cream. But I was like, you know, I think you literally can’t understand. And we will never understand. Like, that’s the and that’s fine. But that idea of removing yourself kind of even from your own life to a certain extent and going okay, there’s that, you know, the French but better raison d’etre. 

Glen McCall  1:11:29
That’s, my reason to be from here on out is a really profound moment. And it’s, yeah, so those events, I was conscious of it, I would say I was more conscious of it physically. I think in time and 20 years of reflection, I can reflect on it a little bit better of how profound that impact was. 

Glen McCall  1:11:51
But I’m a big fan of archetypes. I’m a big fan of hero journeys and all these things. And, you know, there’s a famous book by Joseph Campbell, “The Hero With 1000 Faces.” 

Pete Newsome  1:12:03
Sure.

Glen McCall  1:12:04
We all live that, right, and one of the things that, that, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s even sad, but you let’s get back to your kid comment, like, how do you impart this is like, I’m constantly talking to my kids. Like, your journey is heroic. You just don’t know it yet. Right? 

Glen McCall  1:12:23
Like, you’re in the first couple of chapters, but it is going to be heroic. 

Pete Newsome  1:12:27
Right. 

Glen McCall  1:12:28
And I pray that you’re not, you know, stuck in a very difficult spot like Ulysses, but we all do it. And there are those moments when we weep, and we pain and we hurt like, that we’ve never been hurt before. And then there are moments of triumph, and so forth that, you know, are subtle, and anyway.

Pete Newsome  1:12:49
Well, that’s what I mean, that meant that the pain is inevitable, and we have to acknowledge that right? Strife, challenges, difficulty, adversity, all those things are inevitable to what degree, they differ. But there’s reason to be optimistic and looking forward and overcome because that is where the feeling of reward.

Pete Newsome  1:13:09
As I said earlier, I don’t believe you can feel rewarded without difficulty, right, without a challenge and it happens. So all right, how much time do we have? Five more minutes? 

Glen McCall  1:13:23
We got five more minutes. 

Pete Newsome  1:13:24
Okay, because I’m going to go lightning with you because I want to get this.

Glen McCall  1:13:27
Yes, let’s go lightening. Go ahead.

Pete Newsome  1:13:33
You have the opportunity to be a bank president. 

Glen McCall  1:13:37
Yes. 

Pete Newsome  1:13:38
What traits? When you look at that, why do you think it was you instead of someone else? What did you do to deserve that? 

Glen McCall  1:13:48
I think we could tell the whole story on that story. But I would say that the biggest thing was that I was able to do two things. Years ago, I took a test, and it said, I should either be an air traffic controller or a bank president. 

Pete Newsome  1:14:08
Seriously?

Glen McCall  1:14:10
So it was an aptitude test and I think there are similarities to that, right? So one of the things that are cool about what we do is we’re the cheapest form of capital. So when you come to any bank, and you gotta borrow money, if you watch Shark Tank, all you got to do is realize that I want 20% on this loan for two years, and I want 28% of your company, like, that’s an expensive loan. 

Glen McCall  1:14:34
Like that’s a really expensive loan. Well, we don’t do that we’re very, very competitive. So I think the ability to make quick statistical analysis, that’s one component of it, but the other component is the people component of it. You know, money is nothing more than a representation of your time. 

Glen McCall  1:14:57
And so when you consider the fact that we are dealing with people’s money. And we are either protecting it by making smart decisions, or we’re giving people more money for them to live out their dreams and take the kind of risk you talk about. 

Glen McCall  1:15:12
That’s a very, very visceral, interpersonal situation. So if I had to say, why I got the job, I can tell you specifically, that I had a vision for what I wanted to do. So that was the first thing and I think that only would have come with the experiences I’ve had. 

Glen McCall  1:15:30
I have a vision for what it is, I have an appreciation for the people necessary to do it. Because if you want to travel fast, travel alone, if you want to travel far, travel together. And so I had an appreciation for people and I’m not afraid of my ego, taking a backseat, in all of it, right? 

Glen McCall  1:15:52
Like, when we accomplish what we’re already accomplishing, It’s not my duty. It’s our team’s doing, so I would say that vision, understanding what we need from our team, and then putting the ego in the backseat.

Pete Newsome  1:16:09
And I know you mean that because those are things you’ve said to me offline. Because I’ve been interested, I’m always interested in when my friends are successful. I remember when we hadn’t talked for a while, a few months. 

Pete Newsome  1:16:22
And after, of course, we’ve reconnected and you told me about, you know, hey, I’ve been a little busy. Here’s what happened you brought me up to speed and it was just very clear from really the time we reconnected because you were already working for First United.

Glen McCall  1:16:40
I want to tell this story.

Pete Newsome  1:16:42
You were genuine, and passionate, is overused, right? That’s for you to say, I don’t know that you’re passionate, but you respected the organization, you felt value in the organization. It was personal, maybe that’s a word, right? Maybe that’s passion. 

Pete Newsome  1:17:00
Maybe that is passion.

Glen McCall  1:17:02
I’ll give you an example. And this is really, I told the story the other day, but in fact, I told it to my whole team, which was I had a peer who, from an experience standpoint, was very similar to who I was the same, institution, everything. And I was asked when a previous leader had left, I was asked by that person’s boss, hey, can you help me out? And I said, absolutely, be happy to. 

Glen McCall  1:17:27
And this person is a pretty amazing person, the person who asked me that, but I spoke to this Pyramind and they go, hey, are you? What? Are you getting paid more? Like, hey, did you? Are they giving you anything for that? And I went, no, no, not at all. And they said, well, that’s just not right. And I said, and I thought, well, okay, that’s why you’re where you’re at.

Glen McCall  1:17:54
Like the worst case scenario, I’ve done a real solid, right, I’ve done a good turn of favor. For a person that I respect, who has asked for my help, right? The other side is, hey, I may get this opportunity that has been intriguing me for a while. And that’s exactly what happened. 

Glen McCall  1:18:12
So I told you about vision and understanding what people we need. But at the end of the day, really, I think the big reason I got the job is that I volunteered to do the job before I had it.

Pete Newsome  1:18:23
But that’s a very important message that you did the right thing. I mean, you know, you did what, you know, the decent, good, wholesome. And that those are all the words that I think of, as you’ve talked about, you know, your organization, and just in our conversations, it’s like, you know, it’s not about metrics and numbers and all these things. 

Pete Newsome  1:18:47
It’s like, hey, let’s kind of be the best we can be at this, let’s treat others the way we want to be treated. Let’s be decent, good people. I mean, which shouldn’t be outstanding, it shouldn’t even be expected. But I think that’s rare now.

Pete Newsome  1:19:04
I mean, the way you’ve talked about your organization is the way I would want anyone to talk about mine, which is, hey, we just do what’s right at the moment and we do it for the right reasons. We care about the people we work with, and we enjoy the interactions along the way. I mean that what else can you ask for? 

Glen McCall  1:19:22
It’s really I had a situation where and this is a small example I had an employee whose mom died and he’s going to be out for a little bit longer than we had hoped, week Right? But he had a lot of stuff, this happened on Sunday so the whole week is shot the funerals on Friday, the new employee. 

Glen McCall  1:19:41
So not really built up any sick leave and I love the fact that I work for a company that says no, you take care of what you need to take care of. Like, didn’t have to think about it. There’s no email chain that needs to go anywhere. So I love the fact that we’re living out that rent to those values and my bank does our institution is based on that, it’s based on personal growth. 

Glen McCall  1:20:04
It’s based on meeting people where they’re at, which helped frame so much of how I interact with people. But yeah, I think we’re becoming more aware of that and I will say this again, talking back, going back to millennials and wanting to work for a purpose driven company. 

Glen McCall  1:20:26
And those are really, important things to them. And I think it’s one of the ways that when I look at our company, and I look at other institutions that as long as we keep operating in alignment, with those purpose values, we’ll be fine. Like everything else, will take care of itself.

Pete Newsome  1:20:44
As you’re talking, I keep thinking, we’re describing and talking about your organization, and what makes it successful or not, right, not operating based on fear. Looking ahead, looking to do the right thing, not avoid doing the wrong thing, where so many companies do when I worked for big companies, that was probably the most frustrating thing is like everything, no one was willing to make a decision. 

Pete Newsome  1:21:09
It was just, it was fear. 

Pete Newsome  1:21:11
Like, let’s not do that. If we try something new, like no one gets in trouble or we don’t get fired for doing the thing the way we’ve always done it right. You only get fired when you step out of line. But progress, innovation, does change in evolution. 

Pete Newsome  1:21:24
None of those things happen unless you’re willing to take chances. But as we’re describing your organization, it’s the same way we were describing, like human success in life and the way you should approach it, which I’ve never thought about it before. 

Pete Newsome  1:21:37
But it’s worthy of exploration. Not now, It is a rough time, but to say how is it one in the same right is what makes it an organization successful? Kind of the same traits that make an individual successful.

Glen McCall  1:21:52
Yes. 

Glen McCall  1:22:08
I’ll tell you, this is right. I presented this to my entire team a week ago, and I’m talking my entire team, which is, do you have a growth or a fixed mindset? 

Pete Newsome  1:22:19
Yep. 

Glen McCall  1:22:19
And that’s it, and you can just do yourself a favor. Individuals who are watching this, go on YouTube growth or fixed mindset, and a growth mindset, and companies that compasses, everything you’ve just discussed. Are we taking? Are we making mistakes? Are we creating a safe environment in which mistakes can be made? Can we learn from those mistakes, right? 

Glen McCall  1:22:42
Because the other thing is, you know, if you can’t learn then, we really shouldn’t be trying to make mistakes. So that goes to a learner versus a knower kind of viewpoint, and so forth. But I absolutely believe that the organization of a group of individuals, let’s say, a small group, and the individual, that process is the same. 

Pete Newsome  1:23:05
Yep. 

Glen McCall  1:23:05
Right, so you mentioned something earlier, living with this guilt, that moment in your shower, when you’re thinking about that time, you’ve made an idiot out of yourself, or you said the wrong thing, and immediate, and you carry that stuff with you. 

Glen McCall  1:23:17
That’s an internal dialogue that takes place that prohibits your further growth because you’ve not let that go. For my personal faith, there is a very specific act of sacrifice, which allows me to move forward understanding that those things are forgetting, right, so that for me personally.

Glen McCall  1:23:36
The same is true within an organization, if you have that one voice and individual, who constantly remind you about that time you screwed up, it’s the same dynamic, it prevents any further step out, out on the plank, out on the beach, out on, you know, whatever. I think they’re paramount to success.

Pete Newsome  1:23:59
So true. Man, I love that. That’s great. That is great, we can end there but I have to just ask you, I want to talk about this group thing I mean in. And I want to talk about scouts. But just real quick, this small group that you mentioned, keeps popping up in my head as we’re talking. 

Pete Newsome  1:24:17
I’ve never thought is that a new thought for you that most of your life centers around different small groups of what six to ten? I think you said is that? Is that a new thought? Is that an original thing?

Glen McCall  1:24:31
No, I just I think, I’ve taken Wood Badge, which is the highest form of leadership training in scouting, right? And we talk about the nature of small groups. If you look at the military, right, you have a patrol, it’s made up of these six to ten individuals and I forget, I’m not a military person, so forgive me, but those patrols make up a platoon, and so forth. 

Glen McCall  1:24:54
This is how we’re going to interact and frankly, if you look at any organizational book, Rockefeller Habits, Scaling Up, all these various things, it talks about what a manageable group of individuals is. Right? So having six to ten reports is the right thing. 

Glen McCall  1:25:11
And then when I look at, oh, wait a minute, I’m in a scout troop. And the troop is made up of multiple patrols, and the patrols are made up of six to ten people. And it’s just everything I’ve noticed. And one of the things that I became obsessed with it. And I’ve actually changed my organizational management within my organization.

Glen McCall  1:25:29
Rick Warren, who does the Purpose Driven Life, if you’re familiar with that individual, I actually just talked about this, with my team this morning is that I was running a meeting where I have like, 25 individuals, right, so I’m given kind of an update. And I’m asking for engagement, there are 25 people.

Pete Newsome  1:25:47
Good luck getting that feedback.

Glen McCall  1:25:51
Right! And there’s like six to eight in this meeting. And then there’s another group of six days. And it’s like, this is a train wreck. And I literally sat there, I was like, so I started thinking about, like, how is this? Well, he quotes, six good reasons for having a small group. And that’s how we develop, right? 

Glen McCall  1:26:10
So number one is the best place to develop real camaraderie and teamwork, right? So you really get an opportunity to look at what football teams got 11, right? Baseball teams got nine on a side, basketball teams got five, I don’t think there’s any mistake, that those numbers exist. So the best place to develop real teamwork and camaraderie. 

Glen McCall  1:26:32
It helps everyone to apply their skills and talents and contribute by being more comfortable asking questions. As you know, we have big meetings, and there are 30 or 40 people in there. What’s the hardest thing to get anybody to do? Ask a question and any leader of that organization will stand up in front of 40 or 50 people and they’re begging for questions. 

Glen McCall  1:26:56
Well, that’s the dynamic. Number three, it provides accountability for each of us that we need to grow. So I can’t call out an individual in my group, when there are 30 people on the phone and say, hey, last week, you told me we’re going to do XYZ. 

Glen McCall  1:27:14
But if I’m sitting around a conference table of six people you work through, it’s just like a family, right? There are a lot of people who have 6 to 10 members in their family this is a real place where we’re going to talk about real things and real commitment. So that was one. 

Glen McCall  1:27:30
Number four, it offers support to its members, when you’re under stress, I cannot know that one of my lenders lost his mother in a meeting where there are 30 people in there. There’s no way to appropriately even address that, inquire about it, and so forth, right? 

Glen McCall  1:27:45
Number five, it’s a safe place to develop one’s talents and skills, which leads to what we talked about before growth or a fixed mindset, like, hey, I’m going to make mistakes, and people are going to forgive me. And then six, it is a naturally relaxed place to share our concerns, fears, and obstacles. 

Glen McCall  1:28:02
So those all came from Rick Warren. But it became apparent to me as I look at our organization and trying to become a matrix organization, and you look at, you know, kind of guerrilla warfare, I hate to say that, but you know, that idea of the small groups moving together huge amounts of trust and faith in one another, real interpersonal care for one another. 

Glen McCall  1:28:25
The ability to be goofy, silly, kind of outside of your normal comfort zone, because that’s where our growth is. That it has been kind of an obsession. It’s funny, you should bring that up. I’m glad you picked up on it because I don’t think we’ve ever talked about

Pete Newsome  1:28:39
No, and I’ve never heard anyone else mention it the way you did, and so much so that I’m thinking, man, you need to figure out how to write a book about it. Because if it’s something that’s shaping your whole mentality and the way you’re, you know, attaining success and going about managing your organization, there’s a lot to be unpacked there. 

Pete Newsome  1:29:01
I think it’s real, so look, I’m not going to keep asking you questions because I want to talk about scouts. 

Glen McCall  1:29:09
You can we got time!

Pete Newsome  1:29:10
Do we have time? 

Glen McCall  1:29:12
We do. 

Pete Newsome  1:29:12
Okay, so let’s talk about scouting because it’s something that we all know about. Right? But unless you’ve been part of it, you don’t really know what you get out of it. And you know, you’ve been involved with your sons. Were you in scouts as a kid?

Glen McCall  1:29:30
No, so I mean, it’s funny. You know, I grew up in Largo, Florida. I mean, the only time I ever spent the night outside was on a beach on a blanket, there was no tenting or hiking. 

Pete Newsome  1:29:43
Maybe at the Sheridan Sand Key.

Glen McCall  1:29:49
So, that was not my thing. And I told you before my dad was 65 when I was 18. So it wasn’t like we were, hey, we went out and, you know, my kid was in third grade and he comes up to me and he says, hey, I want to join the scouts. And I was like, all right, you know, and like I said, we were older parents, so you’re unsure.

Glen McCall  1:30:08
You know, all the books you read about, is your kid developing correctly? But being in those groups, you know, coaching, and then scouting, I began to realize, like, all these kids are weird, like, they’re just, and I love the fact that they’re weird and goofy and all the rest of it.

Glen McCall  1:30:2
Which is really rare. How many, I mean, you don’t know this number, but very few, very few Eagle Scouts, right, relatively very few kids, get to play college athletics. And I mean it’s got to be a handful, a small handful.

Glen McCall  1:30:21
But it allowed me to interact with other adults and really understand what that program is about, which is a personal achievement. It’s not my son, who is an Eagle Scout and is also a college football player. So he was able to do that within that parameter, but it provided a real.

Glen McCall  1:31:00
It’s not a lot. 

Pete Newsome  1:31:02
That’s big deal. 

Glen McCall  1:31:06
You know one of the saddest things I have is in terms of, you know, as kids get older, they don’t want to wear their uniform, you know, and I get that I mean, you know, I understand their social pressures and so forth. But for me, and being in the heartland of America, like, it’s great to be a part of a patriotic organization. 

Glen McCall  1:31:23
And it certainly is, who teaches respect for their community, their nation, their flag, frankly, even the whole world. It teaches real practical skills, you know, so there’s a set of requirements that are needed for scouts to advance in rank. 

Glen McCall  1:31:40
There are seven ranks to get to Eagle. But along that way, you have to have fields of study, which could be sports, it could be robotics, it could be bugling, it could be American business, where you put some extra effort into a field of study, I teach personal management, to a lot of kids. 

Glen McCall  1:32:01
And I love that because it teaches them about checking accounts and managing the schedule and doing all these various things. But I was just drawn to the program, really, for the leadership elements of it. And frankly, the results, like I’m a big believer of like, okay, and I can spot an Eagle Scout.

Glen McCall  1:32:19
If I’m in a Best Buy, or I’m at wherever I can spot them, you know if they’re under 25. And you can just spot them, they look you straight in the eye, they give you that firm handshake, all those things that you really want. And so I fell in love with the results of it. 

Glen McCall  1:32:35
Secretly, though I love some of the physical elements of it. You know, I told you, we just took a group of 50 people off to New Mexico, and we camped at 9,000 feet, and yours truly was hiking all over the place. And, its environment, it’s exposed me to environments that I would not normally be. But most importantly, and I think the main reason I got involved and got so involved, and I think it’s just I get my kids for 40 hours a month uninterrupted. 

Pete Newsome  1:33:05
Yeah, that’s cool.

Glen McCall  1:33:06
Without cell phones, without like, we leave Friday night at 6 pm. And then we come home sometime after noon on Sunday. There are no cell phones, we’re tying knots. Were telling stories, we’re light and campfires, and so for me, that was the first and foremost thing is just getting those time with my boys. 

Glen McCall  1:33:27
But then the second thing is, you know, I wanted to get involved because I believe in leadership development quality. So, you know, we haven’t even talked about all the other things, but when you have groups and how, they form and they storm, and then they perform, you know, like what’s those processes?

Glen McCall  1:33:43
And I learned a lot of that In that organization. And just seeing that development of kids mine, especially, but being able to see other kids is just remarkable. And I think many people get it in sports in the same way, but I don’t think I’m not knocking sports. I got an athlete, but I think the character development piece is more pronounced in this right?

Pete Newsome  1:34:11
I mean, I think as I’ve gone through sports with my kids, and it’s changed I think it used to be that I don’t think it is anymore I think it’s a lot of my perspective is very unhealthy right now, what’s happening in sports between the club stuff, you know, the pay for play, deals with these club maniacal club coaches who tell their kids that can’t play for their high school team or their middle school team with the promise of you know, a scholarship that doesn’t exist.

Pete Newsome  1:34:44
I’ve had some friends over the years thinking that their child who was sacrificing nights and weekends and mornings and fun social times and social development, thinking that there was a scholarship on the other end of the rainbow and very few college athletes are on scholarship. 

Pete Newsome  1:35:01
And people just don’t realize that which is crazy to me that you didn’t bother to look. But I had a good friend whose daughter was a junior, and maybe even at the beginning of her senior year in high school, she was a swimmer was like, I didn’t realize I didn’t get full scholarships. 

Pete Newsome  1:35:21
Really? And it was not a fun thing to realize. But you know, in sports, unfortunately, there’s a weird value that’s placed on them with parents right now about wanting their kid to be a successful athlete, which I just find bizarre, and I guess it’s different for me having gone through it, and having had a son who did want to play in college and did have the opportunity to do that. 

Pete Newsome  1:35:49
And it’s not the glamorous thing that people think it is it’s. It’s a lot of hard work. 

Glen McCall  1:35:54
Yeah, and it’s disproportionate, we run into a lot of it here. It’s just like, I don’t remember when I was growing up with this many kids in organized athletics. There just wasn’t as many, like as a percentage if you were to take on our school, right? Like how many people were performing or participating? But I know a ton of people are like, their kids are in it. 

Pete Newsome  1:36:16
With intensity, right? That’s what I find bizarre man, I had a dad tell me, I was asking about the club lacrosse group. And he was like, oh, you have to join this club If you want your kid to play it, you know, the high school it was like a feeder team. 

Pete Newsome  1:36:35
And I was like, he’s in fifth grade. Really? Why doesn’t the best one who shows up for tryouts make the team in high school and does it not work that way anymore? And I’ve witnessed this and i am sure you have too, it’s some weird stuff. And I don’t know that it’s the bastion of character building that it used to be.

Glen McCall  1:36:55
Well, and I think there are moments of that, you know, I think sports do deliver probably humility a little bit better. And that’s always a good quality to have. It certainly feeds into the zeitgeist of, you know, Remember the Titans all these various things.

Glen McCall  1:37:15
Like, I love it, you know, the accomplishment of, golly, you know, what I just thought of, and I’m sitting here, you know, thinking about small groups. I’ve had this theory for years, which is the smaller the team, the larger probability of an upset, right? 

Pete Newsome  1:37:30
Right.

Glen McCall  1:37:30
There are fewer parts contributing to its success of it. So there’s another benefit of small groups but you know, our stories are filled with it, right? I’m going to have a Hollywood it seems like you know, we’ve got a bunch of these sports related movies. But again, it’s the same hero’s journey, right? 

Glen McCall  1:37:48
Like, that can happen in Scouting that can happen in marathons, if that’s kind of your thing or that can happen in your volunteer life if you see a problem in your community and you want to overcome it, and it’s like, all those stories are the same, right? Overcoming obstacles and so forth. 

Pete Newsome  1:38:06
Well, what’s interesting is you’re saying that I think is that you know, scouts are succeeding quietly, right, privately they’re not succeeding, you know, for the admiration of someone else for the attention of someone else. 

Pete Newsome  1:38:24
In a lot of the individual sports in hindsight, I played team sports growing up and but I look at the lessons my daughter learned as a swimmer that is for the most part if I look at what did she have to learn what she had learned personal responsibility, accountability, and you know, there’s no one to make excuses with and you know, swimming, in particular, is something that how good you are as a swimmer is not subjective. 

Glen McCall  1:38:51
There is nobody else helping you may be in a relay, but it’s you.

Pete Newsome  1:38:57
There’s no one playing politics, right and all of that I mean, not unless the is a coach’s lunatic but you are as good as the number says you are and if you want to get better, it’s going to be a matter of what you put into it for the most part. 

Pete Newsome  1:39:11
I loved watching that unfold. Where you know, watching team sports has just gotten weird. I mean, we don’t need to talk about that. But with scouting, I think these guys are doing it not because they get to wear the jersey to school on Friday or because there’s a crowd on Friday night they’re doing it to become, someone who has encouraged them whether it’s self-driven or parents.

Pete Newsome  1:39:36
They’re becoming better citizens better people. I think that’s a pretty cool aspect of it. 

Glen McCall  1:39:40
I’ll give you an example of that, which is directly related to both these things. So my son was a quarterback. And here’s what happened. So a seventh grader who was an average quarterback that coach laughs him off the field as he had never played peewee ball, but he had never touched the ball. He played his alignment. 

Glen McCall  1:39:55
But his mom was an old state pitcher and a college softball pitcher. So those genetics was there. And so he says, Well, I’m going to go do this. I’m like, oh my god, this is gonna be a train wreck. It was and he, you know, he cried all the way home because the coach was like, nope, no way. 

Glen McCall  1:40:17
But he did let him stay on the team, right? And so they made him a cornerback, which was the most absurd thing. That’s what he wanted to do, right? So the following year, he, we find out and I said, well, son, what do you think? And he goes, I don’t know what I’m doing. 

Glen McCall  1:40:31
I said, well, okay that’s good. So we find a coach, and we took him to a private coach. And we’re paying for these lessons it was eighth grade year, right? Last year of middle school, he was the JV quarterback. So he’s not the starter freshman, comes around, they got a freshman team because I don’t even remember the freshman team competing. Maybe there was one.

Pete Newsome  1:40:50
Nope, we didn’t have those. 

Glen McCall  1:40:53
I didn’t understand that. That in itself is a problem in our society, which is like, hey, you got to grind it out until it’s your turn. Right? 

Pete Newsome  1:41:02
Right. 

Glen McCall  1:41:02
That’s part of the whole process. Well, anyway, he beat out the other kid and he was the freshman starting quarterback. Had a stud quarterback in front of them his sophomore year. And when it came around to his junior year, I said, hey, man, it’s your turn, right? Like you put all your time in. 

Glen McCall  1:41:24
Well, we had a change of coaches and coaches didn’t see it that way. And, at this point, this kid’s like a life scout. He’s almost like an Eagle Scout, and I listened. He comes from good parents, too. But I said, listen, I’ll go right and I mean, this is a true story. I’ll go rent an apartment and we’ll go to another school because the coaches say, you’re not standing quarterbacks it’s too bad, you’re not getting saved. 

Glen McCall  1:41:48
He never even got a chance with the first team offense and it was pretty clear. And that frustrated me and I took him in front of the coach and I said, hey, don’t think he deserves 10 reps of practice. He’s been here for three years, like two and a half years. Are you going to give him? Nope, that’s never going to happen.

Pete Newsome  1:42:07
Wow. No kidding.

Glen McCall  1:42:10
But I went, and two things occurred. Number one, the kid who he was battling against, he was like, buddies with, and you know, I personally was like, hey, man, you can’t show him. 

Pete Newsome  1:42:23
Yeah, that makes sense. 

Glen McCall  1:42:25
Right? But here’s my scout who says Dad, you know, just because we’re fighting for the same job doesn’t mean I’m going to hate him. I thought, okay, that’s good.

Pete Newsome  1:42:35
That’s admirable.

Glen McCall  1:42:37
That’s very admirable and then when this whole deal came up, and I said, why don’t we rent an apartment in another school district? You and will spend all week there and we would be home on the weekends, whatever. And he said, no, Dad, I want to play with my team. 

Glen McCall  1:42:48
And I thought, okay, like, all right, we’re heading in the right direction here in terms of his morals, and what guides him. 

Pete Newsome  1:42:57
Sure.

Glen McCall  1:42:57
Which are these kids that he’s been playing with for three years. He doesn’t want to leave them. What he individually wants, is important, but it’s not more important than the benefit of the group. And so I was really proud and I don’t think that would have come about without all the moral and character development that happened at Scouts. That’s my personal belief. 

Pete Newsome  1:43:20
Yeah I mean, that is interesting. And that is, you know, that’s very evolved for a young age, right?

Glen McCall  1:43:27
I was really, really proud of him. This is from the same kid that and golly, Pete, we got it I know.

Glen McCall  1:43:34
We may two have two parts now. This the same kid that when he tried out, he was in, you know, shorts and a T-shirt. And he went out to this, you know, skills camp or whatever. And he’s like, Dad, I want to play football. And we’re sitting in a library and I said, well, hey, well, that sounds great, man. Let’s get you some pads. He’s like pads? What do we need pads for? 

Glen McCall  1:43:54
I said, well, you know, it’s tackle football. That was just for you guys to run around and the coaches see how fast you run and maybe a quick run sideways? Oh, no, no, no, Dad, I don’t know about that I could get hurt. I said son no, that’s the point of the pads, you were the pads so you don’t get hurt.

Glen McCall  1:44:14
He was like no, no, no. And I remember this was a real pivotal conversation he and I had. I said son I’m telling you right now like you are telling yourself a story of how this story is going to end. And I’m telling you right now, if you approach the rest of your life, in every position that this could end badly your life is going to be the worst life I could ever imagine. 

Pete Newsome  1:44:36
Right? 

Glen McCall  1:44:37
You cannot approach everything with the idea of what the worst that can happen. I said you are going to miss so many experiences son and you’ll become bitter and so forth. 

Glen McCall  1:44:51
So we had that real and it was the fourth grade. I think it was the fourth grade so he must have been nine and he sat there for a long time and we’re in the office he goes, we should go get those pads. 

Pete Newsome  1:45:04
Did he really? Isn’t that funny how you remember those? Those moments? I have one with my oldest who’s always the biggest kid in his class. And so yeah, people always say are your football player and it didn’t even occur to me and I played, you know, in all through high school.

Pete Newsome  1:45:21
And I just never, he was still little to me, you know, we were still doing YMCA soccer that sort of thing. And so finally a dad at school, who was the head football coach of the program in our area, and just a great guy. He grabbed him one night, he’s like, alright, you’re ready to play?

Pete Newsome  1:45:39
He’s like, yes, sir. I’m ready to play. And I’m like, All right, we’re playing football. So of course, they immediately stick him on the line. You know, he’s played flag and all that I’m like, dude, you’re never touching a football again, with your hands unless you play center. Right?

Pete Newsome  1:45:50
And it was, he goes out and these kids this was fifth grade. And a lot of kids have been with the program since for a couple of years. And it’s confusing to go out on a football, there are a lot of moving parts, as you know. And his first day in pads, he was just super confused and didn’t know up from down. And physically, it wasn’t a problem. 

Pete Newsome  1:46:14
It just wasn’t a fun day. And I remember sitting at the bar by our kitchen, and he just was like, I don’t think I want to play. I don’t know how he phrased it. But it was a pivotal moment where I was like, you have to decide. It’s early enough, you know, you’ve got a taste of it. It’s on you, I’m not going to tell you you should play because that is not something that anyone should force you to do. 

Pete Newsome  1:46:37
I mean, we force our kids to do some things, and playing tackle football is not going to be one of them. That’s for damn sure. And I said you need to figure it out. Right? I said, but I can tell you this. This was your worst day. Right? Every day is gonna get better. And you know, and the other thing I’ll tell you is, if you quit now, you’re always going to wonder, and I know you’re young and all that and he was in fifth grade. 

Pete Newsome  1:47:00
But I was like, I’m going to tell you not to quit. I’m going to tell you, I don’t think you should quit. But I’m not going to force you to do something like that either at this point. But you have to decide, and it was like this 30 minutes, stand off and he’s like, I’m playing, I’ll do it. 

Pete Newsome  1:47:17
And he never looked back despite, you know, all through high school, the multiple surgeries, you’ve heard all that story. And I’ve talked about it on here before, I won’t do it now. But just, I mean, so much adversity, so much pain, so much suffering, and he never wavered again. And from that, and I’ve always thought, wow, okay, you know, that’s interesting. 

Glen McCall  1:47:37
It’s so much bigger in football. And, you know, when he earned his Eagle Scout, that was the one character trait I really talked about what our kids teach us. And you know, you and I could do a whole separate podcast on just what our kids teach us. 

Glen McCall  1:47:57
But, I mean, I adore grit. I adore grit, there’s just nothing like it. There’s no other single quality. So when you tell that story, and it’s like, all the injuries and never wavered. It’s like it’s just those are the kind of people you want on every team, you have. The trivia team at the bar, a person that you work with, a person in your family, those nonwavers are the best.

Pete Newsome  1:48:26
Right? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t have done it. I hated playing football at the end. By the time I was a senior in high school I was like, get me out of here. This sucks like, it hurt, it’s you wearing a helmet in Florida and shoulder pads and the whole day. I mean, it’s just, you know, dirt practice field, we had at Largos. I was awful.

Glen McCall  1:48:51
95 and 95 and dirt. 

Pete Newsome  1:48:53
Exactly. 

Glen McCall  1:48:53
That dirt didn’t even brush off. It just turned into mud.

Pete Newsome  1:48:59
Well, look, I do wonder if you’ll agree, I will let you go today. I would love to have had you back on maybe in six months. I won’t ask you next week or anything. But you mentioned something I think is so important. I think it’d be so valuable. And we’re going to be addressing it through the site in zengig.

Pete Newsome  1:49:16
It’s financial knowledge and management for young, not just young people, quite frankly, we realize, as I’m sure you know, better, much better than I do. 

Pete Newsome  1:49:26
Even people our age are not equipped with financial knowledge. And so since zengig is going to serve people throughout their career from students all the way through people, you know, close to retirement, we’d be remiss to not address financial education and put some resources on there. 

Pete Newsome  1:49:45
So if you’d be willing, I’d love to have come back and just share you know, let’s talk about what young people need to know. 

Glen McCall  1:49:53
Yep. 

Pete Newsome  1:49:54
We won’t try to solve all the world’s problems. But you know, the older folks with that said that’s a much deeper conversation.

Glen McCall  1:50:00
You know, without a doubt, and we, as a company is devoted to that I personally am devoted to that. It really is, again, when you think about the fact that what you were getting paid is for your time, which is your life, and how little respect we give to the education of how to treat your life that is accumulated. 

Glen McCall  1:50:23
And it’s not, and I don’t mean like money, worship money or anything, but your time, is what you gave up to get this sum of money. And how are you allocating it from a budgetary standpoint, or an investment standpoint, all those things are really paramount, because again, it’s your life. 

Glen McCall  1:50:40
It’s a representation of your life.

Pete Newsome  1:50:41
Yeah. 

Pete Newsome  1:50:41
And money is not a precious asset right time is. 

Glen McCall  1:50:45
That’s right. 

Pete Newsome  1:50:46
And you know, as we’ve learned, you can print more money, but you can’t make more time. And it’s so true it’s the education system, we won’t go into this now we’ll talk more about it when we come back on. It is, is not what anyone would design if they were starting today. And it’s inherently flawed. 

Pete Newsome  1:51:07
I’m not someone who believes that most, not everyone needs to go to college, I’ll just say that.

Glen McCall  1:51:18
Well, of course, and you know, and all you have to do is look at the economics. This is not a, oh, you know, you are not smart enough. I met people who, again, I would say, had to struggle more difficult to get really good grades, and are excellent professionals in their chosen profession. 

Glen McCall  1:51:38
But the reality is the economics of where we’re at. And, golly, I’m talking to someone about this right now, actually, from a university, which is these micro degrees or micro skill set understanding. I have a pretty good idea of what I need my people to understand. 

Glen McCall  1:52:03
It’s not as involved as a four-year degree, no, really, truly isn’t. And I’ll tell you, a huge part of that I would give, like, this is something I did one course on it was a leadership development course in college, which was great. But I would highly recommend that students take eight to 12 hours of interpersonal communication. 

Glen McCall  1:52:27
Challenging, like goal setting, committed actions, like all these things, because that’s how we’re going to evaluate, you know, we’re going to look at you and how you interact. But it is truly sad to me that everybody is going to get paid, almost everybody I shouldn’t say that shouldn’t be glib, but almost everybody’s going to be paid for some service, skill, whatever you may have. 

Glen McCall  1:52:49
And we just don’t have enough people that understand how to handle that. So happy to help in that regard.

Pete Newsome  1:52:54
Yeah, let’s do that. I think it’d be really valuable and if the bank is putting out information that we can promote, as well, I’d love to do that, too. So, Glen, thank you. You’ve been so generous with your time, I think we keep going all night. 

Pete Newsome  1:53:10
You’re a busy guy and so I genuinely appreciate everything you shared today, there are a lot of great lessons to be taken away. So, man, Just thank you.

Glen McCall  1:53:24
I’m flattered and you know, just we’ve had a lot of conversations over the last couple of years reconnecting to three years. But even beyond that, I really enjoyed this Pete. So I went talk to a group of recruits, college-aged kids who were looking for jobs and so forth. 

Glen McCall  1:53:41
And, I just think about this as a resource. And I meant what I said earlier, which is to be able to understand that, you know, and again, you know, think about how many kids who just recently graduated, and they’re like, I’m not in the job I want. 

Glen McCall  1:53:57
And they think that’s it.

Pete Newsome  1:53:58
Right?

Glen McCall  1:53:58
Like, so the more people that you have that kind of explain that it’s a zigzaggy journey and that it takes, you know, turns and so forth, the better for our society. And you know, again, I don’t see anybody doing this. 

Glen McCall  1:54:12
So thank you. Thank you I am honored to have been on here and thank you for doing it.

Pete Newsome  1:54:16
Well, we’ll keep doing it together then. So we’ll leave it at that. 

Pete Newsome  1:54:20
So thank you for listening and driving safe. We’d love it if you could, If you’ve gotten this far, then please rate and subscribe to the show. 

Pete Newsome  1:54:28
We would love that and thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next time. 

Pete Newsome  1:54:32
Glen, thanks again.

Glen McCall  1:54:33
Thanks, take care, Pete.