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Debunking Bad Career Advice Given on Social Media

Episode overview

On this episode of the Finding Career Zen podcast, Pete Newsome invites HR consultant Ricky Baez back to discuss bad career advice on social media. In today’s world, we tend to be influenced by advice given on platforms like TikTok, LinkedIn, and Twitter. However, much of what we see on the Internet is simply posted for likes and views and has no credibility behind it.

Creators will take popular topics and share advice that appeals to their followers, telling them what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. This idea is extremely prevalent among career advice, and Pete and Ricky want to clear the air with some of these alarming claims that often do more harm than good to those who follow what’s being recommended.

Tune in as they discuss the importance of giving a two weeks notice, whether quiet quitting is worth it, and the value of a thank you note.

45 minutes

View transcript

Best pieces of career advice

  • Trust your gut. When you see advice, consider the source. Look at what someone’s accomplished and what they’ve done before believing everything you see on the internet. 
  • It would be best if you always gave two weeks’ notice. When quitting your job, this consideration has continually been a best practice. It’s just common courtesy. Your reputation is more important than ever now, so protect it. Be in a situation where people will remember you fondly.
  • Avoid quiet quitting at all costs if you’re in an unhealthy environment; exit as soon as possible. Take your destiny and your fate into your own hands. Go somewhere you are motivated to thrive, do your best, and keep searching until you find that thing. 
  • Always present yourself in the best possible light. When interviewing for a job, put your best foot forward and give your best effort, show up early, and dress appropriately. Stand out from the crowd and elevate the interviewer’s perception of you by writing a thank you note.

Additional resources

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome headshot

Pete Newsome is the President and founder of zengig, which he created after spending two decades in staffing and recruiting. He’s also the founder of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed and award-winning staffing and recruiting firm he started out of a home office in 2005. Pete’s primary mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way; with a commitment to zengig becoming the most comprehensive source of expert advice, tools, and resources for career growth and happiness. When he’s not in the office or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his career knowledge and expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Finding Career Zen & Hire Calling podcasts.

Transcript

Pete Newsome 00:01
You’re listening to the Finding Career Zen Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome and I’m joined once again by HR consultant extraordinaire, Ricky Baez, Ricky. Good morning.

Ricky Baez 00:11
Good morning. Good morning. Just wanted to let you know the t-shirt that says HR consultant extraordinaire, it’s in the mail, still a little supply chain issue. It’s not here as promised, but I’ll let you know when it gets here.

Pete Newsome 00:24
We’ll see. I get one with your face on it.

Ricky Baez 00:29
You really want to scare people away.

Pete Newsome 00:32
Yeah, I want to promote you and HR at all costs. So we’re talking HR this morning. That’s why I asked you, particularly to join me this morning to talk about some bad career advice that I see out there on LinkedIn. I’ve recently started using Tiktok, which is crazy.

Pete Newsome 00:58
That’s a whole different story. And it is, it’s out there and it’s prevalent, and it gets all of the positive attention. So it’s almost like the more extreme advice you can give to employees and I summarized this as taking the easy path. It’s like the easier the path, the more likes and shares it gets.

Pete Newsome 01:25
And anything that sort of anti-employer is, is what’s popular. And I think that’s a really dangerous thing to buy into. So I wanted to talk about some of these things in particular that I’ve seen and get your take on it and see if I’d like to see it from a different perspective.

Pete Newsome 01:46
So it would, zengig our website, and finding career zen podcast, we are the employee’s advocate, that’s what we exist to be that’s a role that we are here to serve. But often that means sharing information that’s necessary but not popular, right? So what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.

Pete Newsome 02:10
So I want to get into some of these things this morning and see if we can find a different perspective than I currently have, as these just lead to a bad result. Right. So have you seen Have you seen this stuff, too? I know. We knew I wanted to talk about but we didn’t talk about specifics yet. So have you seen what I say?

Ricky Baez 02:31
I’m noticing a trend in LinkedIn and social media where yes, that bad career advice is being given. And I’m like, Ah, man, I don’t know about that. I just do not know about that.

Ricky Baez 02:41
And I really think is a result of how popular social media has gotten in the past 20 years. And I don’t think people wanting to give out relevant information is top of mind, I think is more to be liked to be popular to be shared to go viral is the key thing.

Ricky Baez 03:01
And I think because of that, we’re getting a lot of bad information that people are following out there. So yeah, I have seen it, I want to see what specific things you’re talking about, I want to see if it’s the same that I have on my list.

Pete Newsome 03:11
So look, I’m gonna be a little bit vague, I don’t want to try to call anyone out in particular. So I’ll just describe these things, or from a high level then try to read a specific quote.

Pete Newsome 03:20
So I’ll just start with an easy one. You don’t need to give two weeks’ notice if you’re quitting your job, right, that’s the line. And the justification is employers don’t care about you. Right?

Pete Newsome 03:34
They the night it’s always sort of like this approach or description of like the nameless, faceless giant corporation if there aren’t actual people involved, and I love it. And so, you know, the real kind of explanation was, hey, when they lay you off, they’re not going to lose sleep over it, they won’t, you know, it won’t bother them at all.

Pete Newsome 03:57
And that is so far from true that as someone who’s been part of deciding at a corporate level, making a list of ranking employees, and not knowing how many workers are going to be laid off, I had to do that in my 20s.

Pete Newsome 04:18
And it was excruciating. Because you are playing with people’s lives. And it was an awful feeling. And then I’ve had to deal with it many times as a staffing company owner over the last 18 years when I get a phone call.

Pete Newsome 04:38
Sometimes like in 2008 those phone calls were coming constantly, and I was afraid to answer my phone because I knew it was gonna be bad news. There’s zero chance that a good call was coming from a client and the people on the other end of the line, without exception, we’re always just distraught over it.

Pete Newsome 04:57
And sometimes there are tears involved. And I’m talking about the people who are having to make these decisions. Through no fault of anyone’s just situation and that case, right?

Pete Newsome 05:09
Well, there was a fault in the banking system. But that’s a different story altogether. And the decisions had to be made. And then again, in COVID, where I’ve been part of those conversations, one of our clients had to lay off about 30 people at once.

Pete Newsome 05:27
And they asked me to be on that call. And it’s, it’s heartbreaking to do. And so I can say definitively as I’m sure you can, that there are real people behind these institutions, they are affected by it.

Pete Newsome 05:46
So that’s a little off-topic on why giving two weeks’ notice should be done. But that is the reason was like, what are we talking about here? Like, that is not reality or anything close to it.

Ricky Baez 06:02
It’s not Pete and in it’s funny, you’re bringing this up because one of my students asked me this a couple of weeks ago, and one of my students asked me, is it’s given a two-week notice the law.

Ricky Baez 06:13
And I’m like, it’s not, there’s nothing in the law that says an employee has to give a two-week notice. It’s always been a best practice. And the reason I love two-week notice is that you know, it gives the employer an opportunity to find a replacement, right? It’s, it’s, it’s just common courtesy.

Ricky Baez 06:32
But to go out there and say that you should not give a two-week notice. Because when it’s time to lay somebody off, the company is not going to sleep over it. I will say this, these gray hairs did not just show up on their own.

Ricky Baez 06:47
That not, you’re looking at somebody, you’re hearing somebody who has orchestrated 1000s of layoffs, and has been involved himself myself, laid off about four times in my career. So I’ve seen both sides of it.

Ricky Baez 07:01
And I gotta tell you when executive leadership says guys, we’re in trouble, we have to shave off 10% of payroll or to save, we don’t just say, Oh, just fired people in that said, it is a long process of figuring out, how can we save money without affecting people’s lives, that is the first thing that comes to top to mind.

Ricky Baez 07:22
And the first thing that we do in HR is cut out open positions that are not filled, right positions were budgeted for that are not filled, and we want to make sure that the efficiencies are put in place to where it affects the employees the least.

Ricky Baez 07:37
And then when you get that phone call that says hey, just want to let you know you’ve been laid off. That means every single other avenue has been exhausted because we try extremely hard to make sure we don’t impact people’s lives. But unfortunately, sometimes we do.

Pete Newsome 07:54
Well, it’s necessary for a business to survive at times it’s necessary or you have to make a decision just like any group organization, or society, would you know, what is going to keep the ship afloat? What is going to benefit? The many? If if you have to this is a harsh way to say it, but sacrifice a few.

Pete Newsome 08:16
There’s nothing good about it on either side. Right. That’s I think the point and we can move on from this as was not really a conversation about layoffs.

Pete Newsome 08:26
But the thought that you shouldn’t give two weeks’ notice is just recommending that someone shows a lack of courtesy. That’s how I look at it professional courtesy. It’s personal if you like the people who you work with, because like you said, there’s a hole that’s going to be created.

Pete Newsome 08:50
And the company is two weeks is really hard to even have someone in the seat right? It creates a burden on your co-workers or creates a burden on your manager. It could be depending on the role create a burden on the organization as a whole right?

Pete Newsome 09:05
I mean, look at some of the people who I don’t know what’s true and what’s not right now on Twitter, about Twitter, but did half the engineers just not hit the Yes button yesterday and they’re no longer employees and Twitter’s gonna stop working at any minute. Who knows? Right? We’ll see.

Pete Newsome 09:23
But we know that even one person leaving creates a challenge for those around them. And so now you can say well, I don’t like my coworkers and I want to see them suffer, and okay, fine, but there’s still your professional reputation to protect.

Pete Newsome 09:40
And that to me, is the message here and I wish I had said that earlier because if there are you know, professionals listening who don’t agree with this and say, Hey, I’m always going to do what’s best for myself. And that’s where the story ends up begins. Fine. This is doing what’s best for you.

Pete Newsome 10:01
It’s just not what you see and feel in the moment. But if you look back on it, if you look at life as a whole, right, the quick, easy, satisfactory, satisfying answer is usually not our choice is usually not the right one. And you can go down the line, right?

Pete Newsome 10:22
We can start with Adam and Eve if we want to, and go down the line. And, you know, whether it’s, do I have this drink at night? Do I eat? Or do I want another cookie and another slice of pizza? Yeah, right, you go into all of that. And that is not the right choice normally, and it’s just the way it is.

Pete Newsome 10:45
So you want to protect your professional reputation, you want to be in a situation where down the road, whether it’s months, years, or even decades, people will remember you fondly, and they will remember how you exited.

Pete Newsome 11:00
Because that is their parting thought and will be the last thought that they have. So you could have been great for four years. And if you leave on an awful note that will follow you in the minds of everyone who witnessed that.

Pete Newsome 11:14
And it’s just a bad idea. And for that reason alone is a bad idea.

Ricky Baez 11:21
It’s a horrible idea. Because exactly how you said Pete, especially with social media the way it is today, it’s your reputation is more important than ever now.

Ricky Baez 11:30
Because your people it especially if you document it, have you seen these folks that document their exit, like a Walmart, they hop on the all call on the intercom and they start saying, you know, cussing out you know, a lot of people on the on call, and then they hang up and they document that is a really bad way to move or get it regardless what they did, right.

Ricky Baez 11:50
So it’s always a good idea to be the bigger person’s focus. Just remember, at the end of the day, you are preserved. You’re preserving your name, you’re preserving your reputation. And always give a two-week notice. Regardless of what the organization did to you is always going to work out well for you in the long run, suck it up, bite the bullet and do it.

Pete Newsome 12:12
So I think that’s probably a segue into something that we and everyone else on the planet have talked about ad nauseam over the past couple of months, which is quite quitting. So now here we are. We’re getting the advice that is so commonplace that yeah, do it.

Ricky Baez 12:29
Yeah.

Pete Newsome 12:30
Why don’t give your employer anything they’re not exactly paying for in this snap? Okay, sure, fine. We’ve already talked about that on a podcast that if you’re in a situation that you’ve disliked so much, where you feel that anything that’s not explicitly written on your job description is something you shouldn’t do just because, right, whatever justification you have, that’s just an unhealthy environment.

Pete Newsome 12:56
And you should exit it as soon as possible, right? You would do that in a personal relationship. You would do that in all other aspects of your life. So by all means, do it with one or two-week notices and get the hell out of there. Right?

Pete Newsome 13:10
Go like run. I mean, and listen, that that is not a bad thing to do, like, because if you’ve identified that, like, if you feel that way, just know that everyone else knows you feel that way, whether you think they do or not.

Pete Newsome 13:27
So if there’s going to be a layoff, guess who’s first? Right? I mean, that will put you at the top of the list, a bad attitude, being just behaving that way. You will.

Pete Newsome 13:39
So take your destiny and your fate into your own hands. I mean, that’s really the point with this don’t stay anywhere to be the, you know, the least common denominator, right?

Pete Newsome 13:54
Go somewhere where you are motivated to thrive and do your best and keep searching until you find that thing and it doesn’t matter.

Pete Newsome 14:02
There’s not it’s not a one size fits all answer. It’s what gets you excited, what gets you motivated, what have you taken pride in yourself, and how you spend your professional day. That’s what matters and if you don’t feel that you should look to make a change as soon as possible.

Ricky Baez 14:20
And I know people are listening right now I’m like, what Pete, there are so many organizations, you just don’t value employees, that that’s true, those organizations are out there.

Ricky Baez 14:31
But you as a candidate, you as an employee, and you as your own entity should never let another employer or another entity dictate how you protect yourself out there. Because look, if you have that, that horrible of an experience at work, it’s a good idea to try to have a conversation with leadership.

Ricky Baez 14:50
Sometimes they’re gonna be receptive. Sometimes they’re not if they are working, because maybe they don’t know you feel this way. It really depends on the dynamic happening.

Ricky Baez 15:00
But if they do know you feel this way and they don’t really care, you still need to preserve your, name and your image, and your reputation.

Ricky Baez 15:09
Give that two-week notice and just hightail it out of there. Because you should not put, you should really not tarnish your reputation just because of your experience with a few employers. There are a lot of really good ones out there that you have to show your best foot forward, kind of like dating, you want to put on a good first attraction.

Ricky Baez 15:28
And if it doesn’t work out, look, because I’ve seen those TikTok’s too Pete, where people are videotaping themselves on a first date and the person goes to the bathroom, they don’t come back, come back from the bathroom. Have a conversation with the person and say this isn’t working, and then leave amicably. Can anybody notice that?

Pete Newsome 15:45
Can we just be decent? Like, that’s really the asker? Okay, so if, ya know, if you’re, if it’s a bad situation, leave as soon as you can, because just you really ship analogy comes up so often in these conversations, because if you are in a relationship with another person if you are, and you say I’m going to do the least that I can do, how do you think that another person’s going to perceive you?

Pete Newsome 16:17
It’s not gonna be good, the person is working in the exit.

Pete Newsome 16:21
That’s right. They’re putting in they’re working on their two weeks’ notice, right? But so so make a change, give notice, leave the right way. Over time, you’ll be glad you did that. And listen, that’s why it is the hard road because it may at the moment, it’s not what you want to do.

Pete Newsome 16:39
But it’s what you need to do because it’s the right thing to do. Not for the other part, yes, for the other party, but also for yourself if for no other reason, right? So don’t stay in a bad situation. Give notice when you leave. Here’s another one, okay? I can’t even I’m, I’m struggling to even wrap my brain around this one.

Pete Newsome 17:00
But here, here’s a message that it was essentially saying that employed, candidates don’t need to who are interviewing, don’t need to write a thank you note to managers if in a manager shouldn’t expect one. If anyone should write a thank you note, it’s the manager thinking of the candidate for taking the time to interview.

Pete Newsome 17:26
Okay, so. So here’s the situation. For any job opening, not for any job opening for most job openings, there are dozens, and often hundreds of applicants, okay?

Pete Newsome 17:45
You are trying to get a job you don’t have by virtue of interviewing, you are trying to secure that job offer, right? I assume that’s why anyone wants to interview. So your goal should be to present yourself in the best possible light if you want that job. Now, if you don’t want that job, why I don’t know why you’re there.

Pete Newsome 18:06
So let’s say as I said, you want that job, and you’re competing against 100, 200, or 1000 people for that job. You should put your best foot forward, you should give your best effort, and you should show up early. You should dress appropriately. You should do all the things that you’re supposed to do.

Pete Newsome 18:28
Do you have to write a thank you note? Nope. Should you? Well, what do you think? I mean, do you want to stand out from the crowd? Do you want to elevate their perception of you? If not, don’t write a thank you note, go on, right? Roll the dice. Maybe you’re that good.

Pete Newsome 18:49
And if you are that good, fine, right? The world will know it. But if you want to increase your chances of success, which I recommend everyone do, even if they don’t think they need it.

Pete Newsome 18:59
Write a thank you note, because that will help you again, this is not about this advice. It gets misconstrued because it’s like it’s trying to say yeah, the candidate should be appreciated.

Pete Newsome 19:09
Listen, of course, the candidate is going to be appreciated the interview is as much an opportunity for the candidate to decide whether they’re whether they want the job, right that’s on the employer and the interviewers. It’s their responsibility to present but they have something you want.

Pete Newsome 19:32
That is how that’s that’s where the balance and the relationship start. Right. What do you think about that? Have you heard this, I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it to you or not yet.

Ricky Baez 19:42
I have not. And I laugh because I’m like, I think you move some words around but in general you mentioned it’s the interviewer writing a pink letter to the candidate.

Pete Newsome 19:56
Wait what do I say what do I say differently?

Ricky Baez 19:58
No, no, no, no, you sent it right? Okay. It’s just I was trying to process okay, because I’m like, no normally. Normally the interviewee writes a thank you letter. But what you’re saying is people are saying the interviewer should write a thank you letter to the candidate that’s coming in. Right?

Pete Newsome 20:13
Well, I saw this on LinkedIn, it I saw it last it had like, well over 20,000 likes and shares and I’m looking at it going. No, no, that is awful advice.

Ricky Baez 20:30
It’s bad career advice. So as to is the assumption that if you ask the interviewer, if you don’t write a thank you note that you don’t appreciate the candidate for taking the time out. I mean, I don’t get it.

Ricky Baez 20:41
Because the whole point of an interview with your candidate is to write a thank you note, like come on, let’s be honest here Pete is to stand out from the crowd you said it, you are competing for a position that other people are competing for your job is to a showcase your skills and why your skills are a great fit for the organization and we stand out from the crowd making it easier for the interviewer to make a selection.

Ricky Baez 21:06
But to say no, I’m looking at it from the other point of view. Now, Pete. So can you imagine if I was made a job offer, and I don’t accept the job offer, and when the recruiter calls me to ask me what did I say? Just because? Well, I don’t know. I didn’t get a thank you note from the right. Interviewer Right.

Pete Newsome 21:25
That would probably never happen in the history of ever happening. And never will.

Ricky Baez 21:32
It’s horrible advice again, and you said we got 20,000 lines.

Pete Newsome 21:39
Yeah, it was crazy and insane. And so I’ll say something else without saying more than that. When you see advice, consider the source. I’ll just say that, right? I mean, that’s, that’s what’s weird for me.

Pete Newsome 21:57
I mean, on TikTok. I’m looking at career advice being given and then being in recruiting forever. I have a habit of looking at someone’s history. So when I see someone giving advice, I look at their LinkedIn profile, and I see who is this person to stand on their perch and pontificate right.

Pete Newsome 22:19
And depending on what they’ve accomplished, I’ll say, Yep, this is someone you should listen to. Right. Should it should I listen to advice from Warren Buffett when it comes to investing? Yes, I should. Should I listen to advice on investing from Sam Bank? Ben Breed? No, I should not.

Pete Newsome 22:40
So that is, you know, look at what someone’s accomplished and what they’ve done. And in not all the time, but a lot of the time I scratch my head and say, What, from what basis is this person qualified to say this? And so just consider the source on that.

Pete Newsome 23:04
So let me ask Ricky, here’s what I said because we wanted to explore this. I wanted to explore this from the other perspective, I want to understand okay, so I am, I think we’ve established this already. I’m not a boomer. Do not call me up. My kids like to say that at times. I’m not I’m solidly Gen X.

Pete Newsome 23:23
We’ve well established that. But this sounds old school and that we’re that’s me I feel like a What am I missing? I feel disconnected from this because I can’t comprehend that.

Pete Newsome 23:38
And I see it as it is this sense of entitlement from a candidate going into an interview as I deserve thanks. That was the rest of the message for taking their time. Like I’m supposed to thank you for taking your time.

Pete Newsome 23:55
Okay. Yeah. I mean, it’s Yes. Should they be courteous? Should they say thank you for coming? Should they meet it? Absolutely. But you want a cookie as a result of it? To quote, Chris Rock? Like, no, the world doesn’t owe you anything, right? Like the world.

Pete Newsome 24:13
Okay, here. I’m gonna look into the camera. The world owes you nothing. There. That’s it. That’s all I have. That’s what my father taught me. And it’s what I remember all the time. Right? It’s not fair.

Ricky Baez 24:25
I’m dying, laughing because if there’s some kind of a world event, world event where all records are a race and you know, the world is starting over, there’s a huge war and 2000 years later, people dig in a computer is the one thing they find a video of you saying, looking into the camera saying the world owes you nothing?

Ricky Baez 24:46
And boom, there you go. Civilization starts again with a whole new much.

Pete Newsome 24:51
Man. Have you seen Netflix? Is the new Netflix show about that? This guy’s name is Graham Hancock.

Pete Newsome 24:57
We don’t have time to talk about that today. But check it out. He’s, that is basically what he is showing, I heard of him on Joe Rogan months ago. And he is basically saying there was sort of an ice age kind of event.

Pete Newsome 25:10
And we were much more civilized and what back and now we’re going again. So maybe Ricky, maybe that already exists, maybe someone’s going to pick that up, that the world owes you nothing.

Ricky Baez 25:19
From you know what, so that’s a perfect way to kind of bring everything full circle. The world owes you nothing, folks. But you need to be able to tout your own skills, you need to be able to if you want those positions, those exclusive positions, it’s hard to read hard to reach positions and reach your goals.

Ricky Baez 25:38
You got to put yourself out there and present yourself in a good light. And exactly how you said, Pete, just because a post got 20,000 views doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right. You brought up a Freed guy from FTX.

Ricky Baez 25:52
That’s a perfect example. Because a lot of people lent their name famous people to that organization.

Pete Newsome 26:02
Which is actually that may contradict, it seems like he does owe the world a little bit back from what’s missing a lot of money.

Ricky Baez 26:12
But just you know, you really have to take a step back, consider the source, and trust your gut. Trust your gut, at the end of the day, being a decent human being and courteous will be the victor.

Pete Newsome 26:25
So what’s the so when that advice is given? I think it’s pandering. I don’t think anyone I want to believe this how I should say it, no one actually believes that.

Pete Newsome 26:41
But I fear that they actually do the when saying you don’t need to give notice or you should quiet quit and do the minimum. Like they mean it.

Pete Newsome 26:51
That’s a scary thing, right? Like, it’d be easy to chalk it up and say, Okay, this is just a way to get likes, right? Like, you know, you could it’s like going on and saying, Hey, like you know, I’m trying to think like, go go and do a Red Sox game and saying the Yankees suck, right?

Pete Newsome 27:06
Like everyone around you is going to be happy with that statement. Right? Is it okay, so or is it pandering to the crowd? In which case shame on the people giving that advice?

Pete Newsome 27:20
Or is it is do they really mean it? And if so, what is the thought? Like? What’s the perspective?

Pete Newsome 27:27
I just said that I think it’s just sort of this weird sense of entitlement. And there are a whole lot of reasons behind that. Like, how that’s become a thing. I don’t what else could kind of be like, is there any justification for that sort of behavior?

Ricky Baez 27:46
I think I think it’s, again, there’s no rhyme or reason behind what I’m about to say other than what I feel, I feel that people just jump on those bandwagons just to be on board of something woke it is to buck the system to be to, to to be different.

Ricky Baez 28:03
And then when people pile on to that it gives them energy. The problem with that is that eventually somewhere along their careers, someone’s going to coach that person. Or better yet, that person might be involved in a situation when they experience the opposite, right?

Ricky Baez 28:19
And they’re like, Wow, I was wrong. The problem with that is 10-15 years down the road when people realize I had a different mentality, that previous mentality is judged, is digitally preserved. People will find that oh, well, you said this 15 years ago and that 50 That’s still we got to be careful when you put stuff out there.

Ricky Baez 28:37
What kind of advice you attach your name to, is got to be a solid one, because that advice will be attached to your name for years to come. Somebody could say, Look, we’re talking about this right now, when you saw this on LinkedIn, right? What’s to say that’s not going to happen?

Ricky Baez 28:51
20 years from now when that person has a different thought process. So people you got to be careful with that advice. But in the end, decency is what’s going to rule and that’s what people are going to remember. Let me say this. Going back real quick, Pete to the two-week thing.

Ricky Baez 29:05
I’ve been in HR for 20 years, I remember each and every person, each and every person that left in a bad way. That’s the kind of impression they leave, right? They leave in a bit and if I see them somewhere else, oh, I remember that person. That person clogged all the toilets in the male’s restroom and the second before they left.

Pete Newsome 29:27
Yeah, that’s just because look, that’s such a good point that your, your people, whether you’re in the office setting or out and like want to be thought of in a bad light. I just don’t like just think a little longer term than that. Now, I don’t want to put you on the spot.

Pete Newsome 29:45
And this is a different topic. But you mentioned the word woke and I have to confess, I really don’t know what it means. I know sort of the context in which it’s used.

Pete Newsome 29:58
I remember the first time that I saw it, it was quite a few years ago. I’m like, who likes that is a weird slang like bad grammar sort of thing, right?

Pete Newsome 30:07
Which is somehow just something we do a lot now. But I don’t really understand what it means, is there a simple definition? Or should we just move on and talk about that another day?

Ricky Baez 30:19
No, it’ll be simple. It’ll be simple. Here’s what woke where the term woke came from. I guess back in the day, I don’t know when that would be where that line is. There was, I guess, an aura out there in corporate America that people were sheep that they kept following what the leader said, and they were sheep.

Ricky Baez 30:39
The boss says, let’s do this, when you know, and we do it. And that’s it. Whether it’s a person alive, whether it’s the media, politics, whatever the case may be, when somebody or an idea comes in, in Bucks, that system, whether it’s right, wrong or indifferent, they’re no longer a sleeping sheep.

Ricky Baez 30:55
They’re awake, they’re woke, they woke mentality. But obviously, we use that as a funny term, because we don’t, we’re not serious. When I say somebody’s woke, it’s almost like making fun of them like, well, you’re, you’re, you’re so Wolf, you need to take off your tinfoil hat. It depends on where they go with it.

Ricky Baez 31:14
So to me, that’s what woke means when somebody is trying to buck the system, but it just doesn’t really make sense. It makes more sense that they’re trying to get attention than actually trying to fix whatever issue they’re trying to fight against. Okay. That makes sense.

Pete Newsome 31:29
Yeah. I don’t know that. I would have thought of it a little bit in a different light. It’s sort of like, just more about society and how it just changes in the I guess similar to what you said, right, changes need to be made. I didn’t associate it with a corporate thing at all right? Yeah. Okay. All right.

Ricky Baez 31:50
Everyday life, you know, political life, you know, it’s what’s the big exhibit? Yeah, we don’t have time to go into this will be five hours show for them. Alright.

Pete Newsome 32:00
Well, maybe we’ll explore that later. I don’t know that. I want to explore that. But maybe we’ll write because I’ve gotten this far without that question.

Ricky Baez 32:08
Oh, we need to as young kids, you and I should go to like to a different like malls. It just starts asking people.

Ricky Baez 32:15
What’s your definition of woke? You know, that guy and TikTok that goes around asking people about their apartments in New York City? No, no, you haven’t seen that? No.

Ricky Baez 32:23
People ask him how much money he makes. Should we do the same? It’s just asking young people at the mall. What’s the definition of walking to you?

Pete Newsome 32:30
Yeah, that’s, that would be okay, maybe we will that we maybe we will have no one at the mall. So be by ourselves.

Pete Newsome 32:41
Okay, so I think there’s some more but I did we did we establish that there’s a basis for other than just, just, it’s trendy to do it seems?

Pete Newsome 32:55
Because look, one of the reasons that we talk about some of the things that we do one of the reasons why I wanted to start zengig.com, or our career advice site is to counter some of the really bad advice that’s out there.

Pete Newsome 33:13
And because I think it’s just so necessary and being on the staffing side, we have this perspective in the middle of we know what employers want. We know what works, and we know how hiring decisions are made.

Pete Newsome 33:27
What, makes an employee valuable or not? What matters when references are checked? Okay, so references are checked, often, we check them always. And we want the truth from those references.

Pete Newsome 33:43
So just put that aside. So that was zengig, it’s really to, hey, let’s give the advice that the employees need. Because if we know what employers are looking for, and we know what works on that side, well, then we’re pretty well positioned to now share some a lot of that with the employees.

Pete Newsome 34:05
So I feel compelled to counter this, but I have to there’s bad career advice, but I have to understand where it’s coming from, and I don’t yet so Is it as simple as this to say, well, this is just sort of this woke mentality.

Pete Newsome 34:22
I don’t want to keep using that word. But that’s what you said. I mean, there’s like, what is there more like what is it, and then we’ll move on.

Ricky Baez 34:31
People it’s I really think that people want to be part of something viral. It’s it has to be that Pete It has to be that because all these things I see people piling on I’m wondering if the things people are piling on a meanie agree yeah, I agree on this, this, and that.

Ricky Baez 34:47
I wonder if they would have that same kind of thought process if that same conversation was happening live in front of each other. You know, there’s something that happens when you have a keyboard in front of you.

Ricky Baez 34:57
That kind of for some reason some people make you put under his weird persona that you have to buck the system and you have to play lawn. So I guess I guess what I’m seeing with that, I think that comes from the war of people trying to become something more viral than anything else.

Ricky Baez 35:13
But I gotta tell you, it’s if you follow that advice, as a candidate looking for a job looking to market yourself, you really are going to shoot yourself in the foot and then pay attention to, you know, to websites like zengig.com, because you do have to consider the source, you do have to eat it again, at the end of the day, be a decent human being people will remember you in a good light.

Pete Newsome 35:34
So is it the best I’ve come up with so far that it’s it seems to be anti-establishment? Right. Like, that’s like, that’s the common theme. Maybe all these things have.

Pete Newsome 35:48
So don’t give notice, because the employer would doesn’t care about you. Right. The establishment doesn’t care about you don’t quiet quitting is, you know, they steal your time and they underpay you and they don’t value. Right. All thanks, it’s just let’s take leave again.

Pete Newsome 36:09
But anti-establishment, and so was that kind of it too? I mean, because I feel like maybe it’s sort of inmate in younger generations, right? When, when there were, you know, hippies or That’s right.

Pete Newsome 36:27
But didn’t like the 60s, right? Those were the young people doing do doing that stuff. And it’s not like, there’s a lot of 60-year-olds out there talking about this.

Pete Newsome 36:38
And so maybe it is just a natural thing for young people generationally, perhaps to sort of fight the establishment, whatever the establishment is, at that point in time. I mean, I guess that’s how I’ve thought of you waking it even though I said, I don’t really understand it.

Pete Newsome 36:58
I mean, that’s been if I had to say, I don’t think I’ve ever tried to explain it out loud. I’m I see the word constantly. But is that what it really is, is like, this is a younger generation, seeing things that they don’t like about how the older generation people before them have built things and established things.

Pete Newsome 37:19
And this is their way of fighting back is that I mean, that’s sort of how it feels to me.

Ricky Baez 37:25
I mean, that’s what it sounds like to me, Pete because you know, social media has given young kids an unrealistic expectation of what it means to be successful.

Ricky Baez 37:34
I mean, they think that success is just as long as you put some stuff out there, and again, you’re viral and woke that the heavens are open up and all these bowls money is going to come?

Ricky Baez 37:44
Yeah, maybe for a few and I do mean a few select people out there, but to everybody else bucking the system, and again, you’re saying the same thing, right?

Ricky Baez 37:55
Because it’s the anti-establishment asleep, waking up from it, like the main plug from the matrix. Okay. Some people want to take that blue pill, some people want to take that red pill. And if you didn’t know that reference, I’m sorry.

Ricky Baez 38:10
I just gave away the premise of the matrix. It’s been 30 years almost watched the movie. Oh, man.

Pete Newsome 38:14
I gotta say it. I love the movie. I love the premise. I think it might be true. But that, but my, well, I know, we’ll talk about our simulated lifelike, but then, the movies, like I tried to watch it with my boys.

Pete Newsome 38:39
And they’re like, what, what is this? Like? This is it doesn’t Yeah, I mean, it’s all. But then, this is helpful. This is. So this has given me a new way to think about it. Because I think it is perhaps as simple as young people are often frustrated.

Pete Newsome 39:01
They feel that they deserve more than now that that’s, that’s, I think where the entitled part comes from right? And I have lots of examples of that.

Pete Newsome 39:10
But we’ve because of social media, because of changes in parenting, and in so many changes in society, that they are entitled, and so this is a way of acting out.

Pete Newsome 39:24
But there’s got to be a balance there, right? Like you’re not unless you’re Taylor Swift or Drake, or the drop-dead gorgeous model that even those mean, how many people who are attractive enough to be a model actually get to be the top of the food chain, right?

Pete Newsome 39:46
Or how many great singers if you see American Idol there are there’s so much talent out there. But there’s only one Taylor Swift, right? I mean, so don’t count on that.

Pete Newsome 39:59
And so you want to buck the system, but you’re in the system, like you, unless you can break away from the system, you have to acknowledge that it exists and figure out a way to thrive within it.

Pete Newsome 40:12
And that’s the part that I think, is the message I want to share with zengig. Right? Like, don’t find your great path by being overly disruptive with nothing to show for it, like you haven’t, you know, you have to, you have to earn and achieve. Like, that’s what society rewards, right?

Pete Newsome 40:41
So what can you do? What have you achieved that will give you credibility, and therefore, that gives you a sense of control? But until then, like, you’re just going to make it more difficult for yourself.

Pete Newsome 40:54
Like, I guess that’s, that’s it, like, you can go burn the place down fine. But there are consequences to doing that. So this has been this is like, I have really been struggling to kind of wrap my brain around this.

Pete Newsome 41:10
And I think I finally have it, I think it is just as simple as like, it’s a natural thing for the younger generation, to fight against the older generation. And want change, and to be part of that change.

Pete Newsome 41:27
But I’ll go back to what I said. Choose your heroes wisely. You know, like, burning things down, is not usually how you improve things for yourself, or, or those who you think you’re fighting for. Right?

Pete Newsome 41:50
Like, find a better way. Not Not, not just destroy whatever exists today. So that’s, it’s a little off-topic. But this really resonates.

Pete Newsome 42:00
I think that it’s more of just an astounding, you know, fighting the establishment. Which makes sense. I get it. Okay, I get it. I get where it’s coming from so badly. So dumb to do, but I get

Ricky Baez 42:12
well, you know, if you remember now, it’s so so what you just said in the past five minutes, I’m like, wow, wait a minute. You’re right that reminds me of me growing up.

Ricky Baez 42:22
When I was in my teens, teens, I thought I had the world in my hands. And I thought that my parents did not know the road I’m currently walking on. Right. And obviously, that’s not the case, right?

Ricky Baez 42:34
But I thought I had this sense of entitlement. So I learned that later on in life, I’m like, exactly, you said, the world doesn’t owe me anything, I have to go out and make my own way.

Ricky Baez 42:44
And exactly how you said, Pete, if you’re gonna go out and make your way burned or house down, make sure it’s for a reason. Make sure you’ve got something to show for it.

Ricky Baez 42:52
Make sure whatever you disrupt does help it it is a tangible product that you’re putting out there that people will, will appreciate you for.

Pete Newsome 43:00
That’s and I think that’s probably the way to look at right if you’re going to take that road that is destructive and some for yourself or for others. Just do it the see a better outcome at the end of it. Right? Like no, like, do that.

Pete Newsome 43:21
Don’t do it for the sake of like getting someone back or revenge or vintage like this is what they deserve.

Pete Newsome 43:28
No, no, that’s not like, Oh, God, there’s a quote from how I kind of feel like it’s from Pirates of the Caribbean about vengeance doesn’t pay well, or something like that, right? I’ll have to come to that later.

Pete Newsome 43:46
But just do it with a better outcome in mind. Right? And then decide what’s going to be if the five-year outcome of this or even a year.

Pete Newsome 44:00
So it might help you today, but is it going to help me over time? And whatever change I’m looking to impart? Is this leading to it really? Or does it just make me feel better in the moment? And I think that’s, that’s something to build on.

Ricky Baez 44:16
Look at us changing lives. No, seriously, look at us changing lives. Because to me, at the beginning of this episode, I wasn’t really thinking about my own experience growing up in my career. Right.

Ricky Baez 44:28
So you’re right, Pete. I think it’ll be awesome to take a look at this advice you’ve seen right now and kind of track them. I know that it’s a lot, track them in the next 10-15 years and see how that advice changes as they experienced it.

Pete Newsome 44:41
Yeah, I mean, yeah, we will see. Alright. So I think we’ve arrived at a good point. Ricky, thank you. As always, if you’ve listened this far, thank you. We love your feedback.

Pete Newsome 44:53
So, give it to us whenever you can, and thank you for listening this has been great.

Ricky Baez 45:01
Alright, folks have a good one zengig.com. Check it out you’ll find all kinds of resources their good advice to help you with your career questions.

Pete Newsome 45:10
Questions@zengig.com. We’d love to hear from you thanks so much have a good one.